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  1. #4951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    How could you possibly know that?

    I would argue that Obi's numbers and dominance in College basketball this year was equal to that of Zion last year but we didn't get to see Obi finish his season. Same for other top talents in this draft... The media got the chance to hype Zion where these guys were quarantined.
    10000% disagree.

    Besides stats, every metric had Zion having one of the most impactful seasons in college basketball history. Stats, metrics, eye test, any way you slice it, he was dominant. So much so, there was no doubt he was on another level from the #3 pick in the same draft, from his team. And he did what he did not even dominating the ball. Just playing in the flow of the game

    And then he came into the pros and did anything he wanted.

  2. #4952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    This draft may not have any star talent like Ja and Zion but we don't know that yet... Ball and Obi might be just as good because we just don't know yet.

    My point is there are a lot of unknowns mainly because of the state of the world right now. Just because we haven't seen much of these guys doesn't mean they won't be stars in the NBA. I think there is More NBA talent in this draft overall.
    Fax the tournament is when guys like ja and kemba cemented their place as lottery picks

    Guys like cole and lewis especially lewis could have shot up to top 5 picks

  3. #4953
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    Paul Reed, DePaul!!!

    Is it October yet?

  4. #4954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    This draft may not have any star talent like Ja and Zion but we don't know that yet... Ball and Obi might be just as good because we just don't know yet.

    My point is there are a lot of unknowns mainly because of the state of the world right now. Just because we haven't seen much of these guys doesn't mean they won't be stars in the NBA. I think there is More NBA talent in this draft overall.
    What do you mean that we didn't see much of them? We've been watching them since November. They just missed out on the tournament and most of the guys we talk about wouldn't even had participated in that because their teams weren't good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    How could you possibly know that?

    I would argue that Obi's numbers and dominance in College basketball this year was equal to that of Zion last year but we didn't get to see Obi finish his season. Same for other top talents in this draft... The media got the chance to hype Zion where these guys were quarantined.
    Obi played for Dayton...no comparison to Duke. Obi was also 21, meanwhile Zion was 18. Despite all of that Obi was nowhere near as dominant as Zion. Not even close when you factor in both sides of the ball. Obi wasn't even as good as an offensive player and that is his strength. Even using their numbers, the only thing you can point to was that Obi had a better 3 point percentage. I'm not sure what stats you're looking at.

    Again, we've been watching these guys since November and in the case of Obi, this is his second year in college. We've seen these Obi and the rest of the other players plenty. The tournament helps, but it doesn't completely erase what a player did or didn't do during the five months prior and HS.

  5. #4955
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    Fax the tournament is when guys like ja and kemba cemented their place as lottery picks

    Guys like cole and lewis especially lewis could have shot up to top 5 picks
    No they didn't. Both were already lottery picks. Morant was already in the consensus top 3. Maybe for people that don't really follow college basketball that's when they became more household names, but that statement is just not true.

    I do agree that some players do move up with a good tournament, but we're not talking about 10 spots...it's usually very few for the simple fact that a few games doesn't erase an entire body of work from the 5 months prior. Going back to Kemba, it would probably take a run like that to drastically shift opinions but it still might not mean much in the end. Just look at Shabazz Napier. Despite his tournament run and him leading UConn to a National Championship, he still got picked at the end of the first round.

    Cole and Lewis weren't on good enough teams to make the tournament. We're not missing anything from those two and it wouldn't apply to them. Same for Haliburton and Edwards. Ball, Deni, Hampton and Hayes played overseas and Wiseman ended his season early.

    That leaves Toppin, Okongwu, Okoro, and Devin Vassell as the only top players that would've been participating in the tournament. Toppin and Okongwu are already potential top 5 picks, so who did we miss out on?
    Last edited by smood999; 07-05-2020 at 02:59 PM.

  6. #4956
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    There was zero doubt before the tournament who the top 3 were last year. May have been a small amount of people who doubted Ja, or maybe would have had RJ ahead. But any team that needed a PG was taking Ja regardless. His season, and his explosive athletic ability made him a no brainer.

  7. #4957
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    There was zero doubt before the tournament who the top 3 were last year. May have been a small amount of people who doubted Ja, or maybe would have had RJ ahead. But any team that needed a PG was taking Ja regardless. His season, and his explosive athletic ability made him a no brainer.
    Yeah and he only won one tournament game and struggled in the loss to Florida State.
    Last edited by smood999; 07-05-2020 at 03:20 PM.

  8. #4958
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    Lol fine maybe not ja but yall get the point

  9. #4959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    All of these players sound nice. Who knows, maybe one of them might be the next transcendental player.

    I just want the Knicks to sac up and go after who they want.

    The Knicks froze and settled for Jordan Hill when Steph Curry was there.

    The Knicks settled for Kevin Knox when Luka Doncic was there.

    The Knicks settled for RJ Barrett when Zion Williamson was there.

    There's always a way. I don't want to hear the "can't" or "other team won't..." NOW is the time to change this franchise's mindset.

    I don't expect a championship winner...but go out there and fill that need.
    You think NO was dealing Zion? ZERO chance of that

  10. #4960
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    that being said i'm excited about the young guys,

    Mitch, RJ, Frank, and Ball or even Cole are good young pieces. My worry isn't the young talent it's whether we will ever get with the times and put together modern rosters.

  11. #4961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Man Duke won most of their games with the offense running through RJ after fat boy blew out his shoe. As exciting as Zion is comes just as many doubts. He isn't dominating anyone in the NBA yet. When they played the Bucks the Freak ate his lunch. You guys are still drunk off the Zion cool aid the media has been feeding. RJ was Dukes leading scorer and assists. Too me Ja was the real #1 pick because Greg Oden proved that without being consistently healthy it doesn't matter how good you could be. I think Zion will be a really good player but he is no LeBron, Kobe or MJ...

    RJ is just as versatile as Zion, not as strong or athletic but the same game. He is so underrated to me. Zion wouldn't have looked any better on this lousy Knicks team as Randle did. Knicks coaching would have tried to make him into Draymond as well and he isn't that either...not yet.

    RJ is actually a lot better at involving his teammates than Zion who uses brute force all the time to score. RJ is strong but also very clever. RJ reminds me a lot of a young Paul Pierce and I think that is his ceiling.

    Obi Toppin carried Dayton who beat a bunch of very good teams 29-2 is a remarkable feat when the entire defense is designed to stop him.

    Zion had 3 other NBA talents on his team...2 other lottery picks that were in the draft with him. You can't even name another player on a 29-2 Dayton NCAA tournament team...lol
    They went 3-3 without Zion and 29-3 with him. I'm not sure where you got this idea that they were winning more without him.

    He's averaging 24 pts/ 7 rebs/ 2 assists while shooting 59% from the field right now. Again, what are you talking about? He's doing this while sitting out for months after his surgery and in under 30 minutes per game.

    He busted out of his shoe and missed a few games in college and that made him injury prone? Never mind the fact that he appeared in 33 games. Morant also had knee surgery last summer...

    I'll skip the whole RJ/Zion comparison. It was obvious at Duke who was better and it was obvious this year. If you want to purposely ignore the results, that's on you.

    Of course we can't name another NBA player on Dayton, but that's the whole point. Toppin is one of the few NBA players at Dayton and the entire conference that he's in. Duke was literally going against the top teams every other game. There's no comparison.

    Here are some of the teams that Toppin has gone up against this year:

    Grambling
    Richmond
    George Washington
    UMass
    George Mason
    Fordham
    St. Louis
    Rhode Island
    Duquesne

    Do you know what last year's Duke team would've done with that schedule...even this year's Duke team would've dominated. Paul Reed is the only NBA player that comes to mind other than Toppin in that conference.

  12. #4962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    All of these players sound nice. Who knows, maybe one of them might be the next transcendental player.

    I just want the Knicks to sac up and go after who they want.

    The Knicks froze and settled for Jordan Hill when Steph Curry was there.

    The Knicks settled for Kevin Knox when Luka Doncic was there.

    The Knicks settled for RJ Barrett when Zion Williamson was there.

    There's always a way. I don't want to hear the "can't" or "other team won't..." NOW is the time to change this franchise's mindset.

    I don't expect a championship winner...but go out there and fill that need.
    I get what you're saying but a team would have to be willing to give up the asset.
    In the trade for Luka Doncic Hawks knew they could still get their guy when the Mavs picked so it worked out. A lot of things need to align for a trade like that to work.

    There's no guarantee a team will want to trade with the Knicks.

  13. #4963
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    You think NO was dealing Zion? ZERO chance of that
    Agreed
    Doubt any team would have gave up Zion.

  14. #4964
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    back to the draft, I'm liking Lewis more and more. I think he's #2 for me at PG right now behind Ball. maybe tied with Cole.

  15. #4965
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    back to the draft, I'm liking Lewis more and more. I think he's #2 for me at PG right now behind Ball. maybe tied with Cole.
    Ball
    Hayes
    Hali
    Lewis/Cole

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