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  1. #121
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    I wouldnt mind Peart, but I do have a working theory that in today's nfl climate where each new CBA decreases practice time, OTA time and padded practice time, that developmental guys are harder and harder to actually develop. And OL is maybe the most hard hit by that as the best way to develop alot of the things most guys need to work on is to actually physically hit guys.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I wouldnt mind Peart, but I do have a working theory that in today's nfl climate where each new CBA decreases practice time, OTA time and padded practice time, that developmental guys are harder and harder to actually develop. And OL is maybe the most hard hit by that as the best way to develop alot of the things most guys need to work on is to actually physically hit guys.
    I think that's where them hiring Butch Barry makes sense looking back now.

    I could impact some guys, but I dont think the issue with Peart will need an abundance of work. I agree a couple guys will be impacted, but consistency and hand technique, correctable. I think it would give me pause to maybe take a guy like Ben Bartch though.

  3. #123
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    Charles is another interesting prospect, great mobility which can transition to our ZBS style. Needs to bulk up a little more. He looks like another development guy. I've heard them have interviews with Josh Jones. Sounds likely they are calling guys who are mobile, but are likely 1 year from being ready. Charles profiles similar to Peart.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I think that's where them hiring Butch Barry makes sense looking back now.

    I could impact some guys, but I dont think the issue with Peart will need an abundance of work. I agree a couple guys will be impacted, but consistency and hand technique, correctable. I think it would give me pause to maybe take a guy like Ben Bartch though.
    I'm not an OL expert by any means, so for me at OL especially, I more compile multiple scouting reports and see what common trends emerge. Most of the folks writing scouting reports seem to think peart requires more than just hand placement. Poor footwork and bad hips seems to pop up quite a bit too. He also needs to add a fair amount of strength.

    And that stuff concerns me. It's all correctable stuff and his size/athleticism is not teachable, but I just feel like correcting alot of issues leaves a lot smaller margin for error. And Im sure part of it is being gunshy since his scouting report reads really similar to spriggs. Nothing says he cant develop, but it's scary.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I'm not an OL expert by any means, so for me at OL especially, I more compile multiple scouting reports and see what common trends emerge. Most of the folks writing scouting reports seem to think peart requires more than just hand placement. Poor footwork and bad hips seems to pop up quite a bit too. He also needs to add a fair amount of strength.

    And that stuff concerns me. It's all correctable stuff and his size/athleticism is not teachable, but I just feel like correcting alot of issues leaves a lot smaller margin for error. And Im sure part of it is being gunshy since his scouting report reads really similar to spriggs. Nothing says he cant develop, but it's scary.
    I'm not sure which reports you have on Peart below's what I have on him:

    PROS: He has ideal mobility, and a very smooth player, would be a great fit for ZBS schemes, but developed right can fit most schemes. When you look at his footwork this is a major plus. It should not be hard for NFL coaches to prep him for speedy rushers. He has good quickness to be mobile and open run lanes. His movement skills are superb, and his range is phenomenal. Peart grades well in pass protection. Has all of the unteachable gifts needed to execute at a high level. His feet are constantly active, he has the ideal build for an NFL tackle.

    CONS: His issues are coachable. His hands need to improve, but coachable. He shows good punch, but his handwork can be lacking at times. It's more of a consistency issue. While he is mobile he needs to get stronger, but he has the frame to build on. He can get a little stiff. Most of his issues come from consistency. Peart is still raw as evident by some of his inconsistencies, but there are no red flags.

    Availability: round 2-3
    The only thing about his footwork is it can stall a little, but nothing to be concerned about. Most people who watch his tape will see last season he corrected his hip issue. He is much more fluid. He has nimble feet. I don't know anyone knocking his size he's 6'7 318 pounds. He's actually begun putting weight on. Anyone knocking his hip work didn't see the improvement in his senior year. His athleticism is phenomenal.

    There are only four potential knocks on him right now is he needs to get stronger, despite his size he needs to add to that frame. He started last season 300 lbs, he's up to 318, so he's already working on this. His hands can be lazy. Needs to get "meaner" but I think this is more due to his need to add to the frame. Anything with his footwork maybe his feet occasionally stall when mirroring at the top of the rush, but there has been improvement there. So again, for me the only major issue is his hands, but easily coached.

    Spriggs had more red flags for me than Peart. I agree like Spriggs, Peart's play strength needs improvement. However, there's some differences Spriggs was unable to match power as a base blocker and too easy moved off his spot. Though Peart needs to get stronger I don't see him being moved. Spriggs could not cleanly absorb and eat contact without being jostled. I don't see Peart over setting like Spriggs did either. Spriggs didn't use his length to his advantage often enough, Peart does. Spriggs was more in his punching, Peart lacks aggressiveness. Spriggs biggest knock was his ability to recover with power or athletic traits. I don't see that in Peart either. I'm not saying the end result will be different, there is a risk with Peart, but I can be quite sure he's not Jason Spriggs.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    Charles is another interesting prospect, great mobility which can transition to our ZBS style. Needs to bulk up a little more. He looks like another development guy. I've heard them have interviews with Josh Jones. Sounds likely they are calling guys who are mobile, but are likely 1 year from being ready. Charles profiles similar to Peart.
    arent we tired of this?

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    arent we tired of this?
    That's all you're going to get in this draft outside of the top 4. But developmental doesnt mean the same thing universally either, Jones is a one year project type, but can contribute well year one. Charles is one or two, but can rotate. The concern comes on with how many flags do you have on a scouting report, how many are coachable, is the player coachable, and do they have a work ethic?

    By developmental I mean we're developing a guy who in a year or two we are fairly certain to start. Sometimes the word is used loosely. If they got the system too is a huge key. They need to address OL by the 3rd, the 4th at the very, very latest if they want a solid development guy, anything else is wishful thinking. That for me is where I would have the issue.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I'm not sure which reports you have on Peart below's what I have on him:



    The only thing about his footwork is it can stall a little, but nothing to be concerned about. Most people who watch his tape will see last season he corrected his hip issue. He is much more fluid. He has nimble feet. I don't know anyone knocking his size he's 6'7 318 pounds. He's actually begun putting weight on. Anyone knocking his hip work didn't see the improvement in his senior year. His athleticism is phenomenal.

    There are only four potential knocks on him right now is he needs to get stronger, despite his size he needs to add to that frame. He started last season 300 lbs, he's up to 318, so he's already working on this. His hands can be lazy. Needs to get "meaner" but I think this is more due to his need to add to the frame. Anything with his footwork maybe his feet occasionally stall when mirroring at the top of the rush, but there has been improvement there. So again, for me the only major issue is his hands, but easily coached.

    Spriggs had more red flags for me than Peart. I agree like Spriggs, Peart's play strength needs improvement. However, there's some differences Spriggs was unable to match power as a base blocker and too easy moved off his spot. Though Peart needs to get stronger I don't see him being moved. Spriggs could not cleanly absorb and eat contact without being jostled. I don't see Peart over setting like Spriggs did either. Spriggs didn't use his length to his advantage often enough, Peart does. Spriggs was more in his punching, Peart lacks aggressiveness. Spriggs biggest knock was his ability to recover with power or athletic traits. I don't see that in Peart either. I'm not saying the end result will be different, there is a risk with Peart, but I can be quite sure he's not Jason Spriggs.
    Most the reports I read are early in the Google results. So Lance zerlein, 2 from the draft network and a few others. The reports I've been checking pretty much all mention hands and hips. Feet can get sloppy is mentioned but less so. In addition to hands, alot of them mention how he rarely uses his length and lets guys get into his body alot. And the hips problem tends to limit his already below average strength.

    Plus, hes super experienced but doesn't really have much, if any, real top end battles. So I think that's what makes some of that absorbing contact and strength tough to evaluate. He isn't facing speed/power guys. He's facing guys who are one or the other most often. So I guess I'm not quite as confident he won't have similar problems to spriggs when he starts facing similar competition.

    Outside of maybe his weight, Peart is a guy you'd build in a lab if you were building an offensive lineman. You'd probably build him a bit heavier, especially in the lower body, but other than that, he's the prototype. And the fact the prototype is likely going to be a late 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder, possibly slightly later on some boards, is concerning. And I know that's a dumb way to evaluate. It's funny, because if he was a projected late first, I'd feel better. And again I know it's a really dumb way to look at it, but I just feel like there has to be more problems if he's falling. The only way ideal athletic trait/body type specimens, especially at a premium position like OT, fall is either because they have major medical or off the field concerns or they just aren't good. As far as I'm aware, I've heard nothing to indicate there's any off the field concern or major medical concerns for him. So it seems to me there has to be more than just put on 10-15 lbs of muscle and clean up his hands a little, otherwise he'd be a late 1st rounder, even in a fairly strong OL class.

  10. #130
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    I like other tackles more than Peart, but I think we could do much worse at OT. There are several good ZBS type OTs in this class so there may not be a push to rush to get a guy. Peart would be a great value in the 3rd, but pushing it in the 2nd for me.

  11. #131
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    I'm really starting to like the trade down idea though. There's large differences in play style, but I think we can use a variety of play styles that I just don't think the wr's available at 30 are going to be that much more valuable than the ones available at like 40 or 42. So that really just leaves OT or LB at 30 and I'm honestly not super stoked about those guys at 30 either. This is a deep draft and if feels like grabbing an extra 4th to maybe be used as ammunition later is better than staying put if a decent offer arises.

    My one fear and also the best chance at hope is that a qb falls. That would create the perfect trade down opportunity. Problem is, we may be tempted to just take the qb.

    It'll be an interesting draft for sure, but moving down to the later 30s to early 40s feels like a decent scenario to me.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I'm really starting to like the trade down idea though. There's large differences in play style, but I think we can use a variety of play styles that I just don't think the wr's available at 30 are going to be that much more valuable than the ones available at like 40 or 42. So that really just leaves OT or LB at 30 and I'm honestly not super stoked about those guys at 30 either. This is a deep draft and if feels like grabbing an extra 4th to maybe be used as ammunition later is better than staying put if a decent offer arises.

    My one fear and also the best chance at hope is that a qb falls. That would create the perfect trade down opportunity. Problem is, we may be tempted to just take the qb.

    It'll be an interesting draft for sure, but moving down to the later 30s to early 40s feels like a decent scenario to me.
    Moving down makes a ton of sense I agree.

    In terms of QB, I think they are looking at Love, but I don't he falls to us. Herbert is a easy pass, if, which is a massive if Tua falls then no question, but maybe a .0000000000001% that happens, maybe.

    Best value picks are usually on 2-4 so I'm game for stocking up as many of them as we can.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I'm really starting to like the trade down idea though. There's large differences in play style, but I think we can use a variety of play styles that I just don't think the wr's available at 30 are going to be that much more valuable than the ones available at like 40 or 42. So that really just leaves OT or LB at 30 and I'm honestly not super stoked about those guys at 30 either. This is a deep draft and if feels like grabbing an extra 4th to maybe be used as ammunition later is better than staying put if a decent offer arises.

    My one fear and also the best chance at hope is that a qb falls. That would create the perfect trade down opportunity. Problem is, we may be tempted to just take the qb.

    It'll be an interesting draft for sure, but moving down to the later 30s to early 40s feels like a decent scenario to me.
    i am not averse to trading back based on what the board is saying but getting a 4'th round (and a second) for moving out the first is too low of a return. a 2nd round and a 3rd round pick seems like a starting point. truth be told i don't think Gute will be drafting to rebuild and with the bevy of picks we have this year should we be interested in more picks? i believe this draft will set many teams back because of the difficulty in evaluation, i can also see a 1 year rebuild for a team if they hit on big on their picks. there will be horrid picks this year. i am so going to love this draft!

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by alabastertubby View Post
    i am not averse to trading back based on what the board is saying but getting a 4'th round (and a second) for moving out the first is too low of a return. a 2nd round and a 3rd round pick seems like a starting point. truth be told i don't think Gute will be drafting to rebuild and with the bevy of picks we have this year should we be interested in more picks? i believe this draft will set many teams back because of the difficulty in evaluation, i can also see a 1 year rebuild for a team if they hit on big on their picks. there will be horrid picks this year. i am so going to love this draft!
    Depends where you're moving back to. We're pick 30, so it's not like the 2nd round is 10 picks away. Say someone is moving up for a QB. Indy make sense. They have 34, 44 and 75 in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. You aren't getting 34 and 75 for pick 30. Maybe you can pick swap 3rds to get 75, but you aren't gettin git straight up. You can get 44 and 75 potentially.

    And I'm okay collecting more picks because that's all ammo for later. Say we trade 30 and a 6th for 34 and indy's 4th. By dropping 4 spots and still potentially getting your guy or someone really close, you can use that 4th to love back up later. And that extra 4th could be used to move up 10-15 spots in the 3rd. Or we could package our 4th with indy's 4th and move into the comp pick section of the 3rd round.

    If we love a tackle above the rest, it makes sense to stay put. If we love one of Murray or queen, the lack of depth at ILB makes sense to stay put. But the rest of the spots the guys available at 30 vs the guys available into the later 30s or even the early 40s are pretty darn close. So trading down isn't to make more picks, it's that those picks can be used to move around later.

    Like wr in particular. I like mims, but I'm not sure mims is so much better than Higgins and even DPJ or Pittman that makes me say I have to take mims instead of picking up extra draft captial. Same with reagor, aiyuk, and shenault. I like them all but I'm fine taking the last one of that bunch if it means picking up a 3rd or 4th, assuming shenault doesn't have major medical concerns. So unless there's a run on wr early in the 20s where like 7 wr's are off the board when we pick, I think I like the guys sitting at 35ish as much as who's there at 30, even if a guy or two are taken in that time.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 04-06-2020 at 06:40 PM.

  15. #135
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    I agree with most of what your wrote, but I'm super skeptical of Pittman, its probably the whole USC receiver crop as of late being either boom or bust. Pittman could be different though. I get your point though and I do agree it's hard to see who really are the stand out from this class. But you're right no need to rush as there are probably at least 12 guys in this class who at a minimum will be solid players, may not be great, but should be solid contributors.

    Unless our "guy" is there not much use staying put.

    I would be thrilled to get a second and a 4th for 30, there is so much you can do with the picks we now have. The only reason to stay is if there is a position if need you know there's no chance to fill in other spots.

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