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  1. #46
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    Jul 2010
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    2,925
    Thank god we have an elite QB who can complete long passes To open receivers.

    Let’s here it from Ripper and chonginc, who will say Allen and is several incomplete passes to open receivers down the field wasn’t to blame. Or their comeback will be saying something about me, rather than pointing out what I have been saying since the draft, that a QB who can’t complete long passes won’t win games.

  2. #47
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    Feb 2009
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    10,617
    Before you make another unreadable post savers, the browns didn’t complete a 30+ yard pass either.

  3. #48
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    Jul 2010
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    Sadleybwhat you two don’t want to understand, is this game was not different than any other game. Allen has played. The difference is, our defense wins some and loses some, but Allen has needed our D ever single win not that our D has needed him.

  4. #49
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    What? lol Liuget is already making a difference on this line. He's always been a Pro Bowl talent, just battled injuries the last couple of years.
    I think I see one of our differences here. You see a player that's "always been a Pro Bowl talent," while I see a player that in 8 seasons has never made a Pro Bowl, not even close. The only time he did anything noteworthy was in his first four seasons when he played DE, he was average as a DE then.

    Truly, I'm not sure how to discuss that.

    FWIW, his past three seasons he's averaged a sack/season, 1 QB Hit every third game, and just under a TFL every other game. If you think that that's Pro Bowl caliber play then I don't know what to say. Really. I don't have answer for that, it's not rational.
    Last edited by Wings & Bleu; 11-10-2019 at 06:30 PM.

  5. #50
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    What? lol Liuget is already making a difference on this line. He's always been a Pro Bowl talent, just battled injuries the last couple of years.
    I think you have him confused with someone else JtR. Today, vs. Cleveland, was his first game with the Bills.

    I don't know how many snaps he got, I'll take a look as soon as the info is available, but he had only 1 assisted tackle today.

    Again, I think I understand what's going on here, you seem to see what you want to see. I can understand that, especially if you're young. It's easy to look thru rose-colored glasses when you want the team to do well, I get it, I do. But I base all of my analyses however on far more objective indicators and do a ton of research on both player and team alike.

    Anyway, sorry the game wasn't more enjoyable for you today. : /

  6. #51
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    Tremaine Edmunds is having the best game of his career today. He has been an absolute beast!
    Yeah, he played very well.

    Oliver OTOH didn't even log a stat and was invisible.

  7. #52
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    But apparently we shouldn’t be impressed by him because he “didn’t live up to his pre-draft billing” or some random **** like that according to bleu.
    Either that, or we shouldn’t be impressed because apparently every 1st rounder should be a top player in the league from day 1 or their a complete bust.
    It's not complicated Chong.

    Every team only has so many resources. Draft picks are the primary and most value-laden resource that teams have for building a team. It's widely known amongst NFL professionals, media, and fans that the Draft is the way that teams are built at the core level.

    If you think otherwise I'm not sure what to tell you. But what I'm pointing out is that our drafts have not been good. Neither of our two top-10 picks did what they wer supposed to today to even an average level. That's a fact.

  8. #53
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    I was honestly waiting for something like that from him.
    If you guys can't explain it otherwise, it's pure emotion.

    You didn't even try. I mean that's not a good way to conduct a conversation, rarely providing any objective rationale for your arguments, for or against.

    I still say that we don't make the playoffs. Pittsburgh's going to pass us for that 6th seed. The Raiders may even pass us as well, they're 5-4 too, a game behind us with a much easier schedule.

  9. #54
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I suppose we’re gonna blame Allen for the loss and not hauch tho right?

    So, what, in your mind a 16-point offensive performance against a team that allows 26 points on average, and one that scored the second fewest points against them in 9 games this season (Jets scored 3), with the QB going 22 of 41 for 266 and 0 TDs, and a game rating of 73.8, has nothing to do with it then?

    Seems like an odd take, but the reasons for the loss have to be pointed somewhere. Can be coaching, but honestly, what I saw today from Kitchens is a coach that will be fired by the end of the season. That was one of the worst coaching performances I've ever seen, worse than our for sure. I also have no idea how that clown Monken even has a job as an OC in the NFL either. I mean McD and Daboll may not have been good but Kitchens/Monken were far worse. Despite their idiocy we still lost.

    Either way, your take seems to be that Allen played great and that the reasons for the loss have little if anything to do with him. Well, OK.

    I'm not sure that you guys are being realistic in your assessments. I mean when Liuget's a Pro Bowler despite never having made a Pro Bowl in 8 prior seasons, when he's already made an impact on our DL when all he did was post a single assisted tackle in his first game with us, when Allen with incredibly mediocre passing stats in a 16-point offensive performance has nothing to do with the loss, I'm not sure it's possible to have a rational discussion.

    Seems like you guys simply see what you want to see and disregard everything else.
    Last edited by Wings & Bleu; 11-10-2019 at 06:33 PM.

  10. #55
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    And BTW, the way we lost today is the exact same way that we've won most of our games this season.

    It's not a sustainable model for winning and definitely is not a sustainable model for making the playoffs w/o having a historically easy schedule.

  11. #56
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    this game was not different than any other game. Allen has played. The difference is, our defense wins some and loses some, but Allen has needed our D ever single win not that our D has needed him.
    Yes, that's exactly right!

    We've averaged 21.3 offensive points, below NFL average, in our 6 wins, generally against bad defenses.
    Last edited by Wings & Bleu; 11-10-2019 at 06:36 PM.

  12. #57
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    Aug 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Before you make another unreadable post savers, the browns didn’t complete a 30+ yard pass either.
    What does that have to do with Allen or the offense?

  13. #58
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    Oct 2011
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    18,021
    Quote Originally Posted by Wings & Bleu View Post
    If you guys can't explain it otherwise, it's pure emotion.

    You didn't even try. I mean that's not a good way to conduct a conversation, rarely providing any objective rationale for your arguments, for or against.

    I still say that we don't make the playoffs. Pittsburgh's going to pass us for that 6th seed. The Raiders may even pass us as well, they're 5-4 too, a game behind us with a much easier schedule.
    To be honest, I don't have time to read a lot of what's put on the forum. If it doesn't directly quote one of my posts and it isn't relatively short, I'm probably not going to read it. It isn't that I don't want to have good conversation here, but I'm not always able to spend that much time on PSD these days. So I miss a good amount of what's said.

  14. #59
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings & Bleu View Post
    Yes, that's exactly right!

    We've averaged 21.3 offensive points, below NFL average, in our 6 wins, generally against bad defenses.
    No, actually, it's not. Allen has led the offense to four come-from-behind wins. Without him, they don't win. The defense has been big, but to say that we'd have won those games without Allen at QB is ridiculous. He quite literally led the drives to win the games and led a drive that should have tied the game today. Nobody here has said that Allen is having a Pro Bowl season or has been without flaws, but he's been as important to the 6 wins as the defense has.

  15. #60
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    Aug 2019
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    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    To be honest, I don't have time to read a lot of what's put on the forum. If it doesn't directly quote one of my posts and it isn't relatively short, I'm probably not going to read it. It isn't that I don't want to have good conversation here, but I'm not always able to spend that much time on PSD these days. So I miss a good amount of what's said.
    Well that's fair, but then don't you think that it's not really appropriate to comment on things that you didn't read or took the time to process intellectually?

    I mean when you approach it that way it comes across that you're simply trying to troll, insult, or otherwise pick a fight as it were.

    I mean if anything I said was off then feel free to say so. Point out the errors or the counterpoints. But when all that happens is emotionally dismissing statements made in the interests of genuine attempts to have an honest discussion, it becomes impossible to do so.

    I love to discuss the team, I definitely would like to see us return to the greatness of the '90s. Going to those playoff games was so much fun. The parties after the 1 pm games didn't end 'til 8. We went expecting the team to win not hoping that it would.

    I'm just not seeing us even remotely approach that. What McD and Beane have ushered in talent wise isn't performing even to what they were handed. Maybe in W-L, but in terms of yardage and points generated it isn't.

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