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View Poll Results: Who deserves a spot in the HOF?

Voters
4. You may not vote on this poll
  • Dwight Evans

    1 25.00%
  • Steve Garvey

    0 0%
  • Tommy John

    1 25.00%
  • Don Mattingly

    1 25.00%
  • Marvin Miller

    1 25.00%
  • Thurman Munson

    2 50.00%
  • Dale Murphy

    2 50.00%
  • Dave Parker

    0 0%
  • Ted Simmons

    3 75.00%
  • Lou Whitaker

    3 75.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 31 to 38 of 38
  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Iím not saying he belongs in, but why does he have that presence that he does? We are not talking about someone who played with the Yankees here. We are talking about someone who could have gotten as lost as Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker did/have?

    Are you saying itís simply a handful of post season games? It takes more than that, no? Mickey Lollich from the same city has had quite a postseason resume, but isnít even in the same conversation.

    What is it that gave Jack Morris the respect he has?
    Morris was always considered the ace on World Series winning teams. But that's not the whole story, he had elite defense behind him and played on fantastic teams when people still thoughts wins were the product of the starting pitcher.
    He was his teams ERA leader 3 times in his entire career (once by literally 0.01 - minimum 20 starts), so was he really the ace?

    It's narrative crap all day with Morris. He didn't have a presence anymore than just being confident in those post-season starts. That's it. He was thought to be larger than life, but there were a lot of pitchers pitching when he did who were clearly better, but people didn't know it at the time. And yet, Morris never got higher than 3rd in a Cy Young vote. He was never higher than 5th in rWAR in a single season, and only in the top 10 5 times.

    But he led the league in wins twice, was second another 2 times. And was top 5 in wins 9 different times. But, he can't even be top 10 in rWAR, but is top 5 in wins?

    Thus, the narrative.

    Also, a couple of great post-season games. One amazing one, and then like 5 solid performances (out of 13 starts, I'd argue he was a big reason for his teams 84 and 91 World Series wins). For all the accord about him being great in the World Series, it's funny that wins matter in the regular season, but somehow people ignore that his teams were 4-3 in his 7 World Series starts.

    He was huge in 84 and 91 for the Tigers and Jays. But he wasn't the ace people think he was.

    His peak overlaps with Bert Blyleven, and Blyleven was even better in the World Series, and won 2 rings himself. And Blyleven smokes him all-time. But Bert barely got in? It's people evaluating the sport from flawed memories, not any actual evidence of anything.
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 11-12-2019 at 01:31 PM.

  2. #32
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    Btw, every thing I know about Jack Morris is that he is a fantastic human and person. Ragging on the guy isn't a knock on the guy. It's the people that evaluated him and put him into the Hall. Not his fault.

  3. #33
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    Long story short: seasonal wins, a couple of World Series wins with the winning team, and being a nice guy.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Long story short: seasonal wins, a couple of World Series wins with the winning team, and being a nice guy.
    That's my impression at least.

  5. #35
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    Something tells me there are more than a few guys that fit that description.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Something tells me there are more than a few guys that fit that description.
    Oh for sure.

    But you can't really blame people in the 60's for evaluating players with the amount of information they knew and had in the 60's.

    But if we could purge about 50 guys from the Hall of Fame right now, it would clean things up a ton, and that would make it a lot better (IMO).

    Obviously you can't do that. But that's my impression.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Compare him to Dennis Martinez for a moment.

    and nobody would ever compare him to a Hall of Famer.

    I get the post-season, but it was literally a handful of games that he did (post-season ERA career 3.80 - team record 8-5 in 13 post-season starts)
    Dennis Martinez had a nine-year peak (1987-95) from his mid-30's through his early 40's with an ERA+ of 130! Jack Morris, by comparison, had only one season in his entire career where he exceeded an ERA+ of over 130.

    Take a look at Frank Tanana too. His early career success probably puts him above Morris too.

    Future Hall of Shamers:
    (1) B.A.L.C.O. Barroids (2) Mark McJuicer (3) Jose Chem-seco (4) Rafael Palmeiroids (5) Ken Chem-initi (6) Jason Gi-andro (7) Ryan Fraud (8) Muscle Melk (9) Woman-Ram (10) Shammy Sosa (11) Roger Clear-mens (12) A-Roid (13) Ryan HGHoward

  8. #38
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    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Long story short: seasonal wins, a couple of World Series wins with the winning team, and being a nice guy.

    Jack Morris and CC Sabathia benefited tremendously from run support during their entire careers. That's why they have inflated W-L totals.

    Future Hall of Shamers:
    (1) B.A.L.C.O. Barroids (2) Mark McJuicer (3) Jose Chem-seco (4) Rafael Palmeiroids (5) Ken Chem-initi (6) Jason Gi-andro (7) Ryan Fraud (8) Muscle Melk (9) Woman-Ram (10) Shammy Sosa (11) Roger Clear-mens (12) A-Roid (13) Ryan HGHoward

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