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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Youíre right. It was Southland not Taylor who stated previously he couldnít recall. Also, the dems are now using words like ďbriberyĒ instead of quid pro quo because of how it tested with the American people.

    Iím not giving any benefit of the doubt to Trump. I believe this is something he would do. I also believe the Ukraine president needed to state that this was a quid pro quo in order to prove it.

    Again, Iím not defending trump. Iím giving my opinion on this hearing. I believe the Dems should allow the whistleblower as well as hunter Biden to testify. The whistleblower should be key in providing direct evidence. Biden to prove if there was really corruption and if heís father played a role.
    Quid pro quo and bribery are essentially synonymous in the context of this situation. So it doesnít matter if a focus group told them to use one versus the other.

    Biden nor his son should have nothing to do with the hearing because it has no impact on what Trump was doing as being incredibly corrupt.

    If thereís a separate legal investigation into this conspiracy theory of what amounts to a case of nepotism (which I hate, but as of now this has been debunked to have been nothing more than the possible appearance of impropriety), then maybe there would be a time for that.

    The whistleblower thing is nonsense. Itís just an attempt as finding some partisan person to use as a foil to try to boil it down to political gamesmanship and ignore the facts and testimonies of the witnesses the report led to.

    Donít care if Biden goes down for this either, but there were even many republicans at the start of this brushing this off as nothing more than a failed conspiracy theory. But thereís just about no way someone can at this point look at what Trump did and say this is not incredibly corrupt behavior.

    Bringing up the OJ case is also interesting as many people see that as one of the greatest judicial blunders in history.


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  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    If I was the Ukraine President, I stay the hell out of this mess created by our government. With the Russians breathing down his neck, he is going to risk alienating Trump or the future party in power by choosing sides? Two, why subject himself to another country congressional court process?

    Who needs the whistle blowers testimony when we have bigger fishes who testified that what he said was true? He pointed out something was wrong, and the bigger fish came in gave evidences and first hand accounts. That is a worthless FOX talking point.

    The Bidden issues is only muddying up the waters
    Iím sure the Ukraine president has alternative motives but he has stated there was no quid pro quo. That contradicts the 3rd and 4th hand accounts from others. I would imagine the whistleblower would have more direct knowledge. At least, one would hope so.

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I think Dems are now using words like "extortion" and "bribery" because they are much more apt words

    I mean, I've never thought "quid pro quo" was the right phrase in the first place. It implies that Trump was returning a favor. "Something for something". That's not what happened.


    It is mostly semantics. What we call it doesn't change the legality of anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Extortion and bribery are far more fitting words and relevant given the text in the Constitution.
    Youíre right. It doesnít matter what you call it, except if you are trying to win over the American people for political purposes...

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    I believe youíve called trump racist on several occasions but maybe I misunderstood. My point is, those comments are on par with anything trump has tweeted.
    I've said trump does racist things. Like what he said about that mexican judge was just racist. Doesnt matter if you like him or hate him, it is of it's own accord just a racist comment.

    Does that mean trump is a racist? I dont know, he sure acts like one over and over. Same with the other quotes. The quotes themselves sounded racist, not sure if that means the person who said it is a racist. They could be.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Youíre right. It doesnít matter what you call it, except if you are trying to win over the American people for political purposes...
    Yep Lawyers never try to win a case in the court of public opinion. Totally unheard of
    Last edited by ewing; 11-18-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Youíre right. It was Southland not Taylor who stated previously he couldnít recall. Also, the dems are now using words like ďbriberyĒ instead of quid pro quo because of how it tested with the American people.

    Iím not giving any benefit of the doubt to Trump. I believe this is something he would do. I also believe the Ukraine president needed to state that this was a quid pro quo in order to prove it.

    Again, Iím not defending trump. Iím giving my opinion on this hearing. I believe the Dems should allow the whistleblower as well as hunter Biden to testify. The whistleblower should be key in providing direct evidence. Biden to prove if there was really corruption and if heís father played a role.
    So unless the conspirators admit to their conspiracy you won't believe it? Thank God you do not write our laws, otherwise we'd have nobody in jail for murder unless they admitted it.

    You have changed your reasoning several times, because at the end of the day what you're most concerned about is defending Trump in this instance. As I asked before (and I think we all know the answer) would you go anywhere near these lengths for Obama in this situation?

    Also, what does Biden or his possibly corruption have to do with the hearing? I've had to repeat this to you several times, but you realize even if Biden was corrupt what Trump did is still illegal right?

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Iím sure the Ukraine president has alternative motives but he has stated there was no quid pro quo. That contradicts the 3rd and 4th hand accounts from others. I would imagine the whistleblower would have more direct knowledge. At least, one would hope so.
    Again, quite saying you're not defending Trump and then regurgitate his sycophants main arguments. These are not 3rd and 4th hand accounts. These are people with direct knowledge of the negotiations. They are the ambassadors to Ukraine and personnel involved in the transfer of the funds.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Yep Lawyer never try to win a case in the court of public opinion. Totally unheard of
    As I said earlier, you can tell how devoted someone is to Trump by how vehemently they claim he didn't do this. I think it's pretty obvious to everyone with a brain he tried to withhold military aid unless Ukraine investigated Biden.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I've said trump does racist things. Like what he said about that mexican judge was just racist. Doesnt matter if you like him or hate him, it is of it's own accord just a racist comment.

    Does that mean trump is a racist? I dont know, he sure acts like one over and over. Same with the other quotes. The quotes themselves sounded racist, not sure if that means the person who said it is a racist. They could be.
    My point is would you say the same thing about Hillary and Biden that you say about trump. There are several other quotes to both similar as there are to trump.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So unless the conspirators admit to their conspiracy you won't believe it? Thank God you do not write our laws, otherwise we'd have nobody in jail for murder unless they admitted it.

    You have changed your reasoning several times, because at the end of the day what you're most concerned about is defending Trump in this instance. As I asked before (and I think we all know the answer) would you go anywhere near these lengths for Obama in this situation?

    Also, what does Biden or his possibly corruption have to do with the hearing? I've had to repeat this to you several times, but you realize even if Biden was corrupt what Trump did is still illegal right?
    So you are accusing the Ukraine president of being a conspirator with trump? Wouldnít he/Ukraine he the victims in this case? I mean Dems are using the word bribery and extortion now. Doesnít there have to be someone who was bribed or extorted then? They said there was no quid pro quo and that seems to be enough for some.

    Yes, I realize in one sense that if trump committed a quid pro quo, Bidenís guilt or innocence is irrelevant. But since we are already here, I think the American people have the right to know if Biden is guilty of not. Thatís what all this is about, the election. Do you honestly feel Biden should be the Democratic nominee now?

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Again, quite saying you're not defending Trump and then regurgitate his sycophants main arguments. These are not 3rd and 4th hand accounts. These are people with direct knowledge of the negotiations. They are the ambassadors to Ukraine and personnel involved in the transfer of the funds.
    Iím not defending trump by stating how I view their testimony. And you are wrong. These accounts did not go directly from trump to them, yet trump is the one up for impeachment. There has not been one person as of yet that can provide direct linkage with a quid pro quo to Trump. Again, using phrases like ďthat was my understandingĒ is not good enough. This is a political process meant to harm trumps re-election chances, nothing more,

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Yep Lawyers never try to win a case in the court of public opinion. Totally unheard of
    Thatís all this investigation is about-public opinion.

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    My point is would you say the same thing about Hillary and Biden that you say about trump. There are several other quotes to both similar as there are to trump.
    I would say it about anyone

    If hilary or Biden has the same messy track record as trump then yes. As far as I know they dont, but if i find out they do then yes I'd say the same
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I would say it about anyone

    If hilary or Biden has the same messy track record as trump then yes. As far as I know they dont, but if i find out they do then yes I'd say the same
    In a recent debate this is a quote from joe Biden on how America can repair its legacy of slavery

    ďWe bring social workers into homes of parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. Itís not that they donít want to help, they donít want ó they donít know quite what to do.Ē

    So do you agree black people need to be taught how to parent to repair our legacy of slavery?

    In the 90s, Clinton referred to black youths as ďsuperpredatorsĒ.... do you agree with that statement regarding young black males?

    These are just a few quotes, very similar to the stuff trump has said.

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    In a recent debate this is a quote from joe Biden on how America can repair its legacy of slavery

    ďWe bring social workers into homes of parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. Itís not that they donít want to help, they donít want ó they donít know quite what to do.Ē

    So do you agree black people need to be taught how to parent to repair our legacy of slavery?

    In the 90s, Clinton referred to black youths as ďsuperpredatorsĒ.... do you agree with that statement regarding young black males?

    These are just a few quotes, very similar to the stuff trump has said.
    Ok. What would your reaction be if trump said that?

    I dont know Clinton's statement, but yes if he said black males are super predators then that's quite racist. Clinton is the one who implemented the 3 strike law. I dont think theres any shortage of people who think hes racist
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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