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  1. #3121
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    remember all that outrage about John Bolton and the impeachment debacle.

    https://thehill.com/policy/national-...-difference-to

    Bolton on impeachment: 'My testimony would have made no difference to the ultimate outcome'
    Former national security adviser John Bolton is downplaying the impact his testimony would've had in President Trump's Senate impeachment trial, saying it would've made "no difference" in the outcome.

    During an event at Vanderbilt University on Wednesday, Bolton was confronted by his predecessor, former national security adviser Susan Rice, over whether he had shirked his constitutional duty by not testifying before Congress without being subpoenaed by lawmakers, according to CNN.

    "I thought a lot about if I had been in that position how would I have approached it, and I'll be honest: It's inconceivable to me that if I had firsthand knowledge of gross abuse of presidential power that I would withhold my testimony from a constitutional accountability process," Rice said.

    Bolton responded, countering that he never said he would reject a congressional subpoena to testify: "In no case did I say I would reject a subpoena."

    Rice then fired back: "I can't imagine withholding my testimony with or without a subpoena."

    That remark was followed by a sharp line of attack from Rice, who accused Bolton of being "not being willing to come forward" about alleged wrongdoing by Trump and said that she would feel ashamed were she to act in a similar manner.

    "That, to me, makes it even more difficult, as a former national security adviser, not being willing to come forward," Rice said, according to CNN. "I would feel like I was shamefully violating the oath that I took to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic."

    Bolton then countered that his testimony would not have made a difference: "I will bet you a dollar right here and now my testimony would have made no difference to the ultimate outcome."

    "If anybody thinks to the contrary, I just don't think you knew what was going on in Washington," he reportedly added.
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/john...ry?id=69071325

    "People can argue about what I should have said and what I should have done," Bolton said Wednesday at Vanderbilt University, during his second public appearance of the week. "I will bet you a dollar right here and now my testimony would have made no difference to the ultimate outcome."

    "I sleep at night because I have followed my conscience," he continued.
    But Bolton also harshly criticized the process, saying the House had "committed impeachment malpractice."

    "The process drove Republicans who might have voted for impeachment away from the president because it was so partisan," Bolton said.
    the impeachment was was not only completely partisan, 2 Democrats also voted against impeachment with no Republicans voting for impeachment.

    do those who wanted Bolton to testify still want to believe him here.
    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Either care about all of it like a decent human being or shut the **** up and stop selective outrage based on whether it serves your political purposes.

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome
    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  2. #3122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    remember all that outrage about John Bolton and the impeachment debacle.

    https://thehill.com/policy/national-...-difference-to

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/john...ry?id=69071325

    the impeachment was was not only completely partisan, 2 Democrats also voted against impeachment with no Republicans voting for impeachment.

    do those who wanted Bolton to testify still want to believe him here.
    You realize that Bolton wasn't saying that his testimony would have exonerated Trump, he's saying that even if he testified that Trump directed this personally it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome because the Republicans still would have voted down impeachment right?

  3. #3123
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    You realize that Bolton wasn't saying that his testimony would have exonerated Trump, he's saying that even if he testified that Trump directed this personally it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome because the Republicans still would have voted down impeachment right?
    so anyone that were demanding that Bolton should testify would have been disappointed when it wouldn't have made a difference. that means he had nothing that could have convinced anyone differently, no smoking gun.
    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Either care about all of it like a decent human being or shut the **** up and stop selective outrage based on whether it serves your political purposes.

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome
    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  4. #3124
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First Bolded: John Bolton did have direct knowledge. I know your brain can't wrap your head around the idea that there was someone who had direct knowledge that the Senate refused to call (likely because they knew he had direct knowledge), so I won't repeat myself anymore about it.
    Uhhh bro we're talking about the actual evidence. I guess I can't get onto you too much because this conversation is taking a while but we're not talking about things that might exist. The guy that cleans the john in the White House might have direct knowledge due to hearing Donald Trump on the phone while he was taking a crap. But that isn't in evidence. When you have a trial, you have evidence and then you have a whole universe of stuff that might exist that is not evidence. Only one of the two categories actually matters in the proceedings.

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Second Bolded: Yes, Dershowitz had to clarify his comments because they actually said that. I literally posted the quote. I know you are trying to do the "he didn't mean what he said" defense, but it's pretty pathetic.
    The comments were perfectly clear unless you're braindead like Chuck Todd. It was just the media printing lies, per usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Finally, yes, it's totally me. Oh, and the actual Republican Senators, 6 of whom said the House actually proved their case and Trump did what was alleged he just shouldn't be removed for it. Let me guess, they are all SJWs who suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome?

    You are trying your best to be a smarmy, weasel of a lawyer to "prove" Trump didn't do what everybody knows he did. All you've succeeded in doing is showing how beholden you are to Trump and how much you have decided to support him. I'm not surprised, I never bought your supposed independence when it came to politics anyway.
    I don't care what you buy or don't, or what you think. Most Senators, to say nothing of representatives, are completely morons who are only interested in their grift. I care less what they think than what you do, a great many of them deserve to be tried as traitors.


    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Go ahead, call me more names. That is the only thing you have at this point? Rationalism? You wouldn't know sound arguments if they were printed on the militia pamphlets you have in your basement.
    Same old point and sputter routine. First it's a Klansman, then a holocaust denier, and now a 'militia' member. I almost wish I was that would be cool. I'm just a white collar stiff who resents his elites flushing the nation down the toilet for literally no good reason except to appease little histrionic busybodies like you.

  5. #3125
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    You realize that Bolton wasn't saying that his testimony would have exonerated Trump, he's saying that even if he testified that Trump directed this personally it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome because the Republicans still would have voted down impeachment right?
    Not sure how you connected those dots....but bravo. You must be one of those mind reader weirdos.

  6. #3126
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Uhhh bro we're talking about the actual evidence. I guess I can't get onto you too much because this conversation is taking a while but we're not talking about things that might exist. The guy that cleans the john in the White House might have direct knowledge due to hearing Donald Trump on the phone while he was taking a crap. But that isn't in evidence. When you have a trial, you have evidence and then you have a whole universe of stuff that might exist that is not evidence. Only one of the two categories actually matters in the proceedings.

    The comments were perfectly clear unless you're braindead like Chuck Todd. It was just the media printing lies, per usual.

    I don't care what you buy or don't, or what you think. Most Senators, to say nothing of representatives, are completely morons who are only interested in their grift. I care less what they think than what you do, a great many of them deserve to be tried as traitors.

    Same old point and sputter routine. First it's a Klansman, then a holocaust denier, and now a 'militia' member. I almost wish I was that would be cool. I'm just a white collar stiff who resents his elites flushing the nation down the toilet for literally no good reason except to appease little histrionic busybodies like you.
    Yes, because some random janitor in the White House possibly in the realm of possibility is the exact same scenario as the National Security Advisor who was in the meetings with Trump on the issue and who wrote a book that reports indicate says he personally heard Trump direct this quid pro quo

    Also, there was plenty of evidence. Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. What's telling is you are more likely to believe that everyone involved in this process conjured up a lie as part of some secret cabal aimed at destroying Trump as opposed to maybe everyone involved in the process saying the same thing might be telling the truth, especially considering the timing of all the events matches up perfectly with their testimony.

    As for the last part, I love how you call me names a bunch and then when I do it back you accuse me of the same old routine. I literally called you out on that first. I guess following my coattails is the best you can muster. Pathetic.

    What's even funnier is your objection to the elites "flushing the nation down the toilet for literally no good reason" and being perfectly OK with the notion that Trump may be doing that as well. If this were Obama who did this, with the same evidence, you'd be freaking out and going on diatribes about abuse of executive power and all that.

    The hypocrisy is amusing (and consistent given your hypocrisy of calling me names and then getting outraged when I return the favor).

  7. #3127
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Not sure how you connected those dots....but bravo. You must be one of those mind reader weirdos.
    No mind reading necessary. I know that's what he meant because his next sentence was "If anybody thinks to the contrary, I just don't think you knew what was going on in Washington." and not "because Trump didn't do that".

    He is saying the entire process was so politicized and partisan no matter what he said it wouldn't have made any difference.

    Here is another quote from him:

    And when asked Monday whether he thought Trump's July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was "perfect," as the president often claims, Bolton replied, "You'll love Chapter 14."


    Does that sound like someone who believes the President is innocent?

  8. #3128
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Yes, because some random janitor in the White House possibly in the realm of possibility is the exact same scenario as the National Security Advisor who was in the meetings with Trump on the issue and who wrote a book that reports indicate says he personally heard Trump direct this quid pro quo

    Also, there was plenty of evidence. Circumstantial evidence is still evidence. What's telling is you are more likely to believe that everyone involved in this process conjured up a lie as part of some secret cabal aimed at destroying Trump as opposed to maybe everyone involved in the process saying the same thing might be telling the truth, especially considering the timing of all the events matches up perfectly with their testimony.
    Believe what you want and I'm certainly done arguing with you in particular about it but this did more damage to the journalist class's thwarting of Trump than anything. I actually think it's bad because now Trump can credibly blame everything on political gamesmanship and witch hunts. His poll numbers went up and the DNC didn't even succeed in hiding the ball from their disastrous primary campaign.

    I think impeachment was done for a twofold reason - to keep pressure on Trump to 'play the game' on foreign policy since he seems to frequently go off script as well as to buoy the DNC narrative that Trump is an embattled President. This would explain why the House Democrats made a questionably impeachable charge and didn't even bother to prove anything - I think that they knew perfectly well an actual impeachment and removal would be worse than the optics.

    Personally I think they gambled wrong, beyond galvanizing people who already hated Trump and the GOP they did nothing. A few pink ***** hat marches and a new child celebrity promoting gun removal, or climate change, or hate speech laws could have done that.

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    As for the last part, I love how you call me names a bunch and then when I do it back you accuse me of the same old routine. I literally called you out on that first. I guess following my coattails is the best you can muster. Pathetic.

    What's even funnier is your objection to the elites "flushing the nation down the toilet for literally no good reason" and being perfectly OK with the notion that Trump may be doing that as well. If this were Obama who did this, with the same evidence, you'd be freaking out and going on diatribes about abuse of executive power and all that.

    The hypocrisy is amusing (and consistent given your hypocrisy of calling me names and then getting outraged when I return the favor).
    Obama did way worse than whatever we could stipulate Trump did but was not proven, and I was not happy about it.

    You seem to think I have some big investment in either Donald Trump or Obama or some other person or group of persons in our political establishment. Were you by chance raised by a single mother? It would explain your overly emotional behavior, your hectoring feminine nature, and your frequent demands that I (and others) explain or defend the actions of authority figures.

  9. #3129
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Believe what you want and I'm certainly done arguing with you in particular about it but this did more damage to the journalist class's thwarting of Trump than anything. I actually think it's bad because now Trump can credibly blame everything on political gamesmanship and witch hunts. His poll numbers went up and the DNC didn't even succeed in hiding the ball from their disastrous primary campaign.

    I think impeachment was done for a twofold reason - to keep pressure on Trump to 'play the game' on foreign policy since he seems to frequently go off script as well as to buoy the DNC narrative that Trump is an embattled President. This would explain why the House Democrats made a questionably impeachable charge and didn't even bother to prove anything - I think that they knew perfectly well an actual impeachment and removal would be worse than the optics.

    Personally I think they gambled wrong, beyond galvanizing people who already hated Trump and the GOP they did nothing. A few pink ***** hat marches and a new child celebrity promoting gun removal, or climate change, or hate speech laws could have done that.

    Obama did way worse than whatever we could stipulate Trump did but was not proven, and I was not happy about it.

    You seem to think I have some big investment in either Donald Trump or Obama or some other person or group of persons in our political establishment. Were you by chance raised by a single mother? It would explain your overly emotional behavior, your hectoring feminine nature, and your frequent demands that I (and others) explain or defend the actions of authority figures.
    First: I like how once I say things about the proceedings you canít refute youíre suddenly done talking about this.

    Second, my favorite part about this post (aside from it being a week later) is how readily you believe all your conspiracy crap and demand overwhelming evidence before youíd believe this about Trump.

    You donít believe Trump tried this but then believe they impeached Trump to get him to comport with some deep State foreign policy?

    As for the last part, nice amateur attempt at psychology, but like everything else you claim to know; youíre wrong. And speaking of emotion, I love how you get emotional and cry about name calling and then call me names. If I were as bad an amateur psychologist as you, Iíd say youíre projecting.

    But youíre right, we should stop talking about this. No doubt you have other important matters to attend to, like convincing everyone white nationalists donít exist... (cue you crying about name calling in 3, 2, 1)
    Last edited by valade16; 02-29-2020 at 06:55 PM.

  10. #3130
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No mind reading necessary. I know that's what he meant because his next sentence was "If anybody thinks to the contrary, I just don't think you knew what was going on in Washington." and not "because Trump didn't do that".

    He is saying the entire process was so politicized and partisan no matter what he said it wouldn't have made any difference.

    Here is another quote from him:

    And when asked Monday whether he thought Trump's July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was "perfect," as the president often claims, Bolton replied, "You'll love Chapter 14."


    Does that sound like someone who believes the President is innocent?
    As a foundation, I haven't cared one way or the other about any of the entirely predictable BS.

    To me that sounds like someone trying to pump up a book deal and nothing more.

  11. #3131
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First: I like how once I say things about the proceedings you canít refute youíre suddenly done talking about this.
    Lmao all you did is backpedal and say that there is some really good 'circumstantial evidence' to convict. I've never said that Schiff didn't parade all those State Department sad sacks - of course he did. What we didn't hear was the other half, or so, of his witness list and we didn't hear anyone with actual direct evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Second, my favorite part about this post (aside from it being a week later) is how readily you believe all your conspiracy crap and demand overwhelming evidence before youíd believe this about Trump.

    You donít believe Trump tried this but then believe they impeached Trump to get him to comport with some deep State foreign policy?

    As for the last part, nice amateur attempt at psychology, but like everything else you claim to know; youíre wrong. And speaking of emotion, I love how you get emotional and cry about name calling and then call me names. If I were as bad an amateur psychologist as you, Iíd say youíre projecting.

    But youíre right, we should stop talking about this. No doubt you have other important matters to attend to, like convincing everyone white nationalists donít exist... (cue you crying about name calling in 3, 2, 1)
    So you're saying you don't think politicians and the people they represent use the tools of our republic to influence policy or....?

    You've definitely got some sort of issue my dude. In another thread you're demanding that a good poster who rarely comes around these parts (turnaround) answer for something DROMPF said. It's a peculiar schoolmarmish routine every single time with you. Most people will indulge you on the internet because we're faceless but the politics forum is composed almost entirely of people who have been around the block.

  12. #3132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    As a foundation, I haven't cared one way or the other about any of the entirely predictable BS.

    To me that sounds like someone trying to pump up a book deal and nothing more.
    Literally nobody in America liked or trusted John Bolton until the media pumped him up as a potential Trump impeachment witness. Then things changed. It's such a mystery!

  13. #3133
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Literally nobody in America liked or trusted John Bolton until the media pumped him up as a potential Trump impeachment witness. Then things changed. It's such a mystery!
    I thought he was kind of cute


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  14. #3134
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Believe what you want and I'm certainly done arguing with you in particular about it but this did more damage to the journalist class's thwarting of Trump than anything. I actually think it's bad because now Trump can credibly blame everything on political gamesmanship and witch hunts. His poll numbers went up and the DNC didn't even succeed in hiding the ball from their disastrous primary campaign.

    I think impeachment was done for a twofold reason - to keep pressure on Trump to 'play the game' on foreign policy since he seems to frequently go off script as well as to buoy the DNC narrative that Trump is an embattled President. This would explain why the House Democrats made a questionably impeachable charge and didn't even bother to prove anything - I think that they knew perfectly well an actual impeachment and removal would be worse than the optics.

    Personally I think they gambled wrong, beyond galvanizing people who already hated Trump and the GOP they did nothing. A few pink ***** hat marches and a new child celebrity promoting gun removal, or climate change, or hate speech laws could have done that.



    Obama did way worse than whatever we could stipulate Trump did but was not proven, and I was not happy about it.

    You seem to think I have some big investment in either Donald Trump or Obama or some other person or group of persons in our political establishment. Were you by chance raised by a single mother? It would explain your overly emotional behavior, your hectoring feminine nature, and your frequent demands that I (and others) explain or defend the actions of authority figures.
    What is it you have against women?

  15. #3135
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Literally nobody in America liked or trusted John Bolton until the media pumped him up as a potential Trump impeachment witness. Then things changed. It's such a mystery!
    Uhhhh Trump did for quite some time lmao

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