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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    What would oneill and randy a war be
    I just figure whatever they do will combine to a 1.0 basically. I see them all as about equal right now.

    I see Thomas, O'Neill, Arozarena all as equal players. If 650 PA, basically 1.5-2.0 WAR, the best of the 3 would be 2.0 with a full season, and 325 PA would be 0.75-1.0 WAR

    So I figure the best will get 600 PA's, then the other 2 about 200 or so each.
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 11-30-2019 at 12:48 AM.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I just figure whatever they do will combine to a 1.0 basically. I see them all as about equal right now.

    I see Thomas, O'Neill, Arozarena all as equal players. If 650 PA, basically 1.5-2.0 WAR, the best of the 3 would be 2.0 with a full season, and 325 PA would be 0.75-1.0 WAR

    So I figure the best will get 600 PA's, then the other 2 about 200 or so each.
    So if that's what they could be, makes more sense to have one of them getting full time at bats rather than Fowler who isn't a long term answer here and doesn't offer much of anything. If one of the other guys can match or do better, it makes no sense to trot Fowler out there consistently
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  3. #138
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    I would guess that Fowler has a pretty short leash to be the full time guy at this point. Speculating in December about who the best choice in June is a bit of a stretch. The nice thing about Fowler is he can play solid defense all over the outfield. However... O'Neill can too. It is most likely that an injury or (hopefully) a hot bat will determine our outfield.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    So if that's what they could be, makes more sense to have one of them getting full time at bats rather than Fowler who isn't a long term answer here and doesn't offer much of anything. If one of the other guys can match or do better, it makes no sense to trot Fowler out there consistently
    Yeah, moving on from Fowler isn't so much a matter of talent, but rather difficulty. And he plays well enough to justify his roster spot. It's part of the problem with having aging vets on a team.

    That said, Fowler does provide stability, and he is very likely to reach his projection, where the others are far more volite and less likely.

  5. #140
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    Which one is most likely to give us a 2.5-3.5 WAR in a full season? Just play the hot hand! Fowler being a switch hitter will give him some extra value too.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Yeah, moving on from Fowler isn't so much a matter of talent, but rather difficulty. And he plays well enough to justify his roster spot. It's part of the problem with having aging vets on a team.

    That said, Fowler does provide stability, and he is very likely to reach his projection, where the others are far more volite and less likely.
    Give him a roster spot, that's fine. He doesn't deserve to start because of the money he makes.
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Give him a roster spot, that's fine. He doesn't deserve to start because of the money he makes.
    Not because of the money he makes.

    He'll start because of stability of his history (initially). He can for sure lose his roster spot.

  8. #143
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    Dec 2019
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    I want to look at this winter alternatively, say more for the winter of 2020, season of 2021.

    Ozuna now for sure isn't coming back unless he doesn't get anything close to what he is looking for.

    I'm not fine by replacing him within. There are valid arguments that O'Neil has not got enough burn and Thomas hasn't been given his opportunity to fail. Both fair, still don't care.

    I wanted the Cardinals to explore a Fowler + Wong for Urias and Myers deal. Two days after having that though, Urias is a Brewer. Two days ago I though what about Wong straight up for Edwards their SS prospect (Padres). Yesterday the Padres traded for Profar. So clearly I have an idea as to what the Padres might be thinking, lol.

    But lets get to Boston here. Everyone know that they are trying to move money, everyone expects it to be Betts. I have an alternative line of thinking. Bogaerts and Bradley for Wong and Bader. Maybe Cardinals need to throw in some mid grade prospect or two. Boston sheds payroll, Cardinals dont have to have Bradley beyond this season and get a bat they need. Can play him at third base this year and let Edman play the majority of second base. Bogarts is cheap for his production offensively and is under control. Allows you to let Gorman rise up the ranks at his own pace, maybe even trade him if DeJong can put together a complete season(s) at SS. It also says to the likes of Betts and Springer for next winter that "hey, we are trying to make moves to win" which according to mlb network is something free agents actually look at besides the offer on the table.

    Its a win-win for both teams. Boston gets a gold glove second baseman they have control of for relatively cheap for two seasons, replaces Bradley with a cheaper Bradley and frees up twenty million to throw at best on top of what money they think they can throw at him already. Cardinals get a bat to replace Ozuna, would probably lose some defense at second base but not much offense. Lets be real. I like Wong but he hasn't put together a full season either so offensively its probably closer to a wash with Edman than it is to be we traded away significant offense. Plus Wongs offensive stats say hes better batting seventh or eight compared to Edman who seemed to do alright near the top of the order. If Gorman shows signs of taking the next step or steps this year, you can always throw anyone in left field. Yes you can. Left field is historically where you place your worst fielding outfielder. I'm confident Bogaerts, DeJong or Gorman can at least be a bad defensive outfielder in left field, if not better than bad.

    I know the Cardinals are giving the vote of confidence to Carpenter this offseason like they did with Fowler last offseason but lets be real. If the deal is there, the Cardinals are not saying no so Carpenter can play third base next year.

  9. #144
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    Assuming Ozuna leaves... we simply have to replace his 2.2 WAR. Shouldn't be too tough.

    I don't see the Cardinals doing ANYTHING major this offseason, unless Fowler tells them he would accept a trade. They're going to roll with the team that got to the playoffs, and hope for bounce back years from Goldie and Carp.

    This isn't a good offseason for them to spend anyways.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obabikon View Post
    Assuming Ozuna leaves... we simply have to replace his 2.2 WAR. Shouldn't be too tough.

    I don't see the Cardinals doing ANYTHING major this offseason, unless Fowler tells them he would accept a trade. They're going to roll with the team that got to the playoffs, and hope for bounce back years from Goldie and Carp.

    This isn't a good offseason for them to spend anyways.
    Spend on what? Bogaerts had a 5.2 WAR last year. Hes not a free agent, you arent spending money to get him. You do have to cover his contract but given what Wong makes and what we were at least willing to pay Ozuna by extending him the QO it evens out. Bradley will cost more than Bader but Bradley wont be here after 2020.

    Carp hasn't earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt to bounce back. Take away his extension and he's waived after the season. Its true for all sports GM's. They'll never admit they made a wrong move and will give all their moves every opportunity to prove them right than to just cut bait and try again or try something else.

    Honestly there is no difference if Carp does bounce back or doesn't. This team is still going to be in the same place a year from now either way.

    You get XB, you are better off this year and/or next year and beyond.

    MLB network speculated and its not substantiated in anyway, that the Sox could package XB to move Prices money. Not interested in that but I'd swap CF with them for a year and take XB in a heartbeat even if the trade costs a little more than taking Price in terms of a package.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuban Bee View Post
    Spend on what? Bogaerts had a 5.2 WAR last year. Hes not a free agent, you arent spending money to get him. You do have to cover his contract but given what Wong makes and what we were at least willing to pay Ozuna by extending him the QO it evens out. Bradley will cost more than Bader but Bradley wont be here after 2020.

    Carp hasn't earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt to bounce back. Take away his extension and he's waived after the season. Its true for all sports GM's. They'll never admit they made a wrong move and will give all their moves every opportunity to prove them right than to just cut bait and try again or try something else.

    Honestly there is no difference if Carp does bounce back or doesn't. This team is still going to be in the same place a year from now either way.

    You get XB, you are better off this year and/or next year and beyond.

    MLB network speculated and its not substantiated in anyway, that the Sox could package XB to move Prices money. Not interested in that but I'd swap CF with them for a year and take XB in a heartbeat even if the trade costs a little more than taking Price in terms of a package.
    I actually would be fine with your suggested deal, except that we would be about 20 million over where they would like to be financially. It's a bad year to spend, because we had nothing coming off the books. (only Ozuna, and that money was already taken up).

    If this team is going to be in the same place a year from now... I'll happily take it. That's the playoffs. Make the playoffs, and you have a chance!

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuban Bee View Post
    I want to look at this winter alternatively, say more for the winter of 2020, season of 2021.

    Ozuna now for sure isn't coming back unless he doesn't get anything close to what he is looking for.

    I'm not fine by replacing him within. There are valid arguments that O'Neil has not got enough burn and Thomas hasn't been given his opportunity to fail. Both fair, still don't care.

    I wanted the Cardinals to explore a Fowler + Wong for Urias and Myers deal. Two days after having that though, Urias is a Brewer. Two days ago I though what about Wong straight up for Edwards their SS prospect (Padres). Yesterday the Padres traded for Profar. So clearly I have an idea as to what the Padres might be thinking, lol.

    But lets get to Boston here. Everyone know that they are trying to move money, everyone expects it to be Betts. I have an alternative line of thinking. Bogaerts and Bradley for Wong and Bader. Maybe Cardinals need to throw in some mid grade prospect or two. Boston sheds payroll, Cardinals dont have to have Bradley beyond this season and get a bat they need. Can play him at third base this year and let Edman play the majority of second base. Bogarts is cheap for his production offensively and is under control. Allows you to let Gorman rise up the ranks at his own pace, maybe even trade him if DeJong can put together a complete season(s) at SS. It also says to the likes of Betts and Springer for next winter that "hey, we are trying to make moves to win" which according to mlb network is something free agents actually look at besides the offer on the table.

    Its a win-win for both teams. Boston gets a gold glove second baseman they have control of for relatively cheap for two seasons, replaces Bradley with a cheaper Bradley and frees up twenty million to throw at best on top of what money they think they can throw at him already. Cardinals get a bat to replace Ozuna, would probably lose some defense at second base but not much offense. Lets be real. I like Wong but he hasn't put together a full season either so offensively its probably closer to a wash with Edman than it is to be we traded away significant offense. Plus Wongs offensive stats say hes better batting seventh or eight compared to Edman who seemed to do alright near the top of the order. If Gorman shows signs of taking the next step or steps this year, you can always throw anyone in left field. Yes you can. Left field is historically where you place your worst fielding outfielder. I'm confident Bogaerts, DeJong or Gorman can at least be a bad defensive outfielder in left field, if not better than bad.

    I know the Cardinals are giving the vote of confidence to Carpenter this offseason like they did with Fowler last offseason but lets be real. If the deal is there, the Cardinals are not saying no so Carpenter can play third base next year.
    They just extended Xander and he was 5th in MVP this past season. No way they'd do that.

    I can see them moving Bradley or Price if possible. But Xander is pretty untouchable.

  13. #148
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    Travis Shaw became available yesterday. Would love to pick him up. Could take the Munoz role but as a lefty with more pop. Or he and Edman could platoon at 3rd if Carpenter sucks again

  14. #149
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    I bet we do add a left handed bat somewhere. I dunno who, but I imagine someone on the 26 will hit left handed that isn't on the roster right now.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    They just extended Xander and he was 5th in MVP this past season. No way they'd do that.

    I can see them moving Bradley or Price if possible. But Xander is pretty untouchable.
    Nobody is calling up Boston and asking to take Price's contract. Someone may call for Bradley but the return will be some D level prospects.

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