Week 1 Thread

[JAZZNC]

Conley has officially been relegated to the bench. He's been really really bad this year and the coaches/FO are finally "admitting" it if you will. It's unfortunate. But I don't think that moving Royce to the starting lineup is going to make a whole lot of difference. We'll just have to wait and see though.

[JAZZNC]

And they totally wussed out and now they're benching Joe. Unreal.

[Wes Mantooth]

And they totally wussed out and now they're benching Joe. Unreal.

You called it! Ha ha. They don't know what to do.

Everyone deserves some blame. Even Rudy hasn't been good. He has averaged 11.3 points and only 7.6 rebounds the last 3 games. Joe has scored 26 points the last 4 games. Bogey has made 11 of his last 41 attempts since the break.

[JAZZNC]

You called it! Ha ha. They don't know what to do.

Everyone deserves some blame. Even Rudy hasn't been good. He has averaged 11.3 points and only 7.6 rebounds the last 3 games. Joe has scored 26 points the last 4 games. Bogey has made 11 of his last 41 attempts since the break.

Yeah the team as a whole is just completely lost. Everyone has lost their confidence. Last night guys were passing up open looks just to swing it to guys who aren’t open. At least Mitchell was gonna go down swinging.

I dunno. Just really sucks that we went “all in” and just got passed in the standings by a team that was supposedly going to be tanking. I mean at least I don’t have to have any expectations for this team anymore. Can just be OK when we get blown out in the first round. FO got a lotta work to do (not that there’s much they can do) if they are gonna fix this team. Like I said before, I think we need to just blow it up and get assets. I mean we can keep trying to build around Mitchell and Gobert for the next 5yrs and maybe get lucky and get to a WCF or something. But I don’t see it. Maybe I, just down because of how bad we’ve been and it could turn around I guess. I dunno. Just frustrated because I actually had high expectations this year. Hadn’t been this excited about a Jazz team since the year after the D-Will/Boozer team went to the WCF.

[Raupie]

For the first time in five years, I question the coaching. I feel like the GM has been good. I mean, the Jazz have been aggressive in making moves, bringing in free agents, making trades. I know not all of them have worked out, but it seems to me that more and more of it could be the coaching. Maybe Quin is good at coaching young players but is not good at coaching stars?

I mean, Heyward and George Hill both left the Jazz under Quinn's watch as coach. We all assumed the small market as the fault, but maybe they knew something we didn't. Hill seems happy in Milwaukee.

Quinn's "system" has not found ways to make their best player impactful. I mean, I heard national broadcasters talking about how Rudy Gobert being on the floor hurts them. Other teams are using players making minimal salaries and playing Rudy off the floor. I love Gobert and I don't blame him at all, but Quinn's system, both offensively and defensively is not finding ways to help Rudy become more impactful. He is going to be up for his extension... there was talk of the designated player extension... that was all before the last month where going small against us is the new thing and now Rudy is neutralized and Quinn hasn't done a thing yet to fix it.

Announcers talk about how good Conley is and how he is a veteran and should be able to adapt. They were blaming Quinn for not figuring out how to use him. So they don't think Conley is now not good, they were blaming the Jazz for not knowing how to use him.

We are playing few young players... so it is kind of hard to have the positive outlook that at least it will get better.

I hear people argue that we were "just not hitting shots" can't blame that on Quinn. But at some point if no one on your team is able to hit shots all at the same time, maybe there could be something else going on? Whether it be confidence, proper warmups, game preparation, fatigue. Whatever it may be, you have to find the root cause of it so that you can fix it.

The Jazz (Quin in particular) know the problems. Hell, we are one of the worst turnover teams and it is KILLING us every game. Has been that way all season long. Young teams playing rookies aren't turning it over as much as us. Everyone and their mother knows that we have a turnover problem and it still isn't fixed.

Last year, the big issue was shooting... so Dennis Linsey goes out and addresses the shooting problem. Now we have good shooting but can't play defense, or turn the ball over, or forget how to shoot. At some point, can Quinn actually identify and fix an issue?

This season has been difficult because there are so many other coaches doing such great jobs. Coaches who are incorporating new players really well. Coaches who are helping their teams deal with injuries. Teams who are continuing to change and adapt to the latest nba trends to stay one step ahead.... I think it is time for Quinn to stop getting the praise for the Jazz organization being a great organization and drafting well, recruiting well, etc. and start getting some blame when the team on the court isn't playing to their ability or is losing because our system is losing to the opposing team's system....

ok, rant over.

[Wes Mantooth]

For the first time in five years, I question the coaching. I feel like the GM has been good. I mean, the Jazz have been aggressive in making moves, bringing in free agents, making trades. I know not all of them have worked out, but it seems to me that more and more of it could be the coaching. Maybe Quin is good at coaching young players but is not good at coaching stars?

I mean, Heyward and George Hill both left the Jazz under Quinn's watch as coach. We all assumed the small market as the fault, but maybe they knew something we didn't. Hill seems happy in Milwaukee.

Quinn's "system" has not found ways to make their best player impactful. I mean, I heard national broadcasters talking about how Rudy Gobert being on the floor hurts them. Other teams are using players making minimal salaries and playing Rudy off the floor. I love Gobert and I don't blame him at all, but Quinn's system, both offensively and defensively is not finding ways to help Rudy become more impactful. He is going to be up for his extension... there was talk of the designated player extension... that was all before the last month where going small against us is the new thing and now Rudy is neutralized and Quinn hasn't done a thing yet to fix it.

Announcers talk about how good Conley is and how he is a veteran and should be able to adapt. They were blaming Quinn for not figuring out how to use him. So they don't think Conley is now not good, they were blaming the Jazz for not knowing how to use him.

We are playing few young players... so it is kind of hard to have the positive outlook that at least it will get better.

I hear people argue that we were "just not hitting shots" can't blame that on Quinn. But at some point if no one on your team is able to hit shots all at the same time, maybe there could be something else going on? Whether it be confidence, proper warmups, game preparation, fatigue. Whatever it may be, you have to find the root cause of it so that you can fix it.

The Jazz (Quin in particular) know the problems. Hell, we are one of the worst turnover teams and it is KILLING us every game. Has been that way all season long. Young teams playing rookies aren't turning it over as much as us. Everyone and their mother knows that we have a turnover problem and it still isn't fixed.

Last year, the big issue was shooting... so Dennis Linsey goes out and addresses the shooting problem. Now we have good shooting but can't play defense, or turn the ball over, or forget how to shoot. At some point, can Quinn actually identify and fix an issue?

This season has been difficult because there are so many other coaches doing such great jobs. Coaches who are incorporating new players really well. Coaches who are helping their teams deal with injuries. Teams who are continuing to change and adapt to the latest nba trends to stay one step ahead.... I think it is time for Quinn to stop getting the praise for the Jazz organization being a great organization and drafting well, recruiting well, etc. and start getting some blame when the team on the court isn't playing to their ability or is losing because our system is losing to the opposing team's system....

ok, rant over.

I think a lot of what you said was fair. Man I miss Ty Corbin. He was so easy to blame. I agree Quinn needs to be better. I also think we are lucky to have him. I really doubt we could do better. For me, he is a good haircut away from being a terrific coach.

[dhopisthename]

I think this team has two real issues the past two weeks.

#1 so many teams just have bigs that can shoot 3's now that we can't just rely on Rudy to be covering the rim. Basically no one on this team is defending at a high level and even Rudy wasn't playing that well so it all went to crap over the past 15ish games. Our offense has just been good enough to get a few wins in there to cover up for the defense.

The other problem is that we are now a high variance team like it or not. if we are hitting our 3's we can beat anyone, but I don't think its a coincidence that against the better teams our shots just don't fall as much. Joe's month to month splits this year is pretty maddening. just looking at this 3pt% Oct-31.6%, Nov-27.9%, Dec-53.1%, January 41.9%, and February 29.3%. Then just bout everyone, but Clarkson and Donovan had a horrid february shooting the ball.

[dhopisthename]

Sad thing is that I think we'd be a better team with Rubio. We'd at least have one guard who can play any kind of defense. Mitchell has absolutely got to step it up on that end. He is literally Harden bad on defense. Constantly gets lost in screens, lack of effort, etc.

meh i think Rubio was a better fit on a different team. he does some things very well, but he has some some monster deficiencies. I agree with what you said about defense, but would say it about everyone on this team.

[Raupie]

I think a lot of what you said was fair. Man I miss Ty Corbin. He was so easy to blame. I agree Quinn needs to be better. I also think we are lucky to have him. I really doubt we could do better. For me, he is a good haircut away from being a terrific coach.

Hahaha... A haircut would be a good place to start

[Raupie]

The only hope we have is that a reason for our poor games is a lack of effort... and come playoff time everyone ramps up the intensity level. IF they are able to turn it on like that, they at least possess championship level shooting ability. I also think Quinn is one of the better coaches in playoff series, as he comes up with some unique strategies...

So until the Jazz give me something to be excited about (beating up on bad times doesn't count), I will just survive with the hope that they are focused on playoffs and just skating by for now...

[dhopisthename]

I think andy larson wrote an article talking about this, but is it really a coincidence that they stopped trying as hard the second we got the #2 seed and Rudy and Donovan made the all star team?

[dhopisthename]

man Tony Bradley does a couple of things really well and couple of things really subpar. if he could ever just be average on defense without fouling at a rate of every 3 minutes he could be pretty good as a backup. I would also say he gets a few weak whistles as well.

[murphturph]

After watching Ibaka go 5/7 from 3 last night (primarily guarded by Gobert) it really got me thinking. How much more valuable is DPOY Gobert vs. someone like Ibaka or Gasol? (Not talking trade value. Talking about W's)

If you straight up swapped Gasol or Ibaka for Gobert, do the Jazz really get worse? I think the loss in defence is off sett by all the driving space Mitchell would have to operate with.

Or maybe the Raps are just spoiled with there 3 point shooting C's, like How many 3&D Centers are even out there? Davis,Lopez, Kristaps, JJ, Horford, Baynes, Turner come to mind.

But then again, Gobert is undoubtedly the best rim protector in Basketball

End of rant. I'm also a bit of a biased Raps fan.

For the record, yall have a great team! I loved the fit of O'neal Ingles and Bogi alongside Gobert & Mitchell
Conley really really turning it around at the right time too!

[Raupie]

You are not an obnoxious Raptors fan... so its allowed Also, you only shared facts, the best type of argument.

I don't want to speak for the rest of Jazz fans, but I think you are correct in saying Rudy is not as impactful of a defensive player (at least not in all games).

1) When Rudy doesn't get as many touches offensively, he doesn't try as hard defensively. He was not getting the ball and you can tell he was less active defensively and on the boards

2) Rudy has improved his game that he can defend the perimeter better, but he still isn't great at it AND he still prefers to play off because if he commits to the perimeter, the rest of the Jazz do a crappy job protecting the rim and getting boards.

In general, the trends in the NBA are making Rudy and his style of defense (and offense) less impactful. An average stretch 5 can pull Rudy away from the basket and reduce his impact defensively and a below average defender can keep him from getting lobs and reduce his impact offensively.

I do not think Rudy is a max player, especially a super max player. He may have been last year, but his skills don't translate with new NBA trends. So I love Rudy and he is still an above average center, even in today's NBA, but he is not a superstar impact player any longer.

After watching Ibaka go 5/7 from 3 last night (primarily guarded by Gobert) it really got me thinking. How much more valuable is DPOY Gobert vs. someone like Ibaka or Gasol? (Not talking trade value. Talking about W's)

If you straight up swapped Gasol or Ibaka for Gobert, do the Jazz really get worse? I think the loss in defence is off sett by all the driving space Mitchell would have to operate with.

Or maybe the Raps are just spoiled with there 3 point shooting C's, like How many 3&D Centers are even out there? Davis,Lopez, Kristaps, JJ, Horford, Baynes, Turner come to mind.

But then again, Gobert is undoubtedly the best rim protector in Basketball

End of rant. I'm also a bit of a biased Raps fan.

For the record, yall have a great team! I loved the fit of O'neal Ingles and Bogi alongside Gobert & Mitchell
Conley really really turning it around at the right time too!

[Wes Mantooth]

After watching Ibaka go 5/7 from 3 last night (primarily guarded by Gobert) it really got me thinking. How much more valuable is DPOY Gobert vs. someone like Ibaka or Gasol? (Not talking trade value. Talking about W's)

If you straight up swapped Gasol or Ibaka for Gobert, do the Jazz really get worse? I think the loss in defence is off sett by all the driving space Mitchell would have to operate with.

Or maybe the Raps are just spoiled with there 3 point shooting C's, like How many 3&D Centers are even out there? Davis,Lopez, Kristaps, JJ, Horford, Baynes, Turner come to mind.

But then again, Gobert is undoubtedly the best rim protector in Basketball

End of rant. I'm also a bit of a biased Raps fan.

For the record, yall have a great team! I loved the fit of O'neal Ingles and Bogi alongside Gobert & Mitchell
Conley really really turning it around at the right time too!

To be fair you are comparing Gobert on his worst game of the year and Ibaka at his best. Ibaka is shooting a solid 40% from downtown this season, but 5/7 is an outlier. The 3 point shot is the great equalizer. To your point, any team that can have 5 out has an advantage in today's NBA.

Almost every Jazz fan was cheering for the Raptors to win last year. We all loved it. I'm even more impressed with them this year. I thought a drop was coming but you guys are still legit. Can't wait to see you beat the Celtics or 76ers in the playoffs.