Week 1 Thread

[Raupie]

What if the Jazz traded Clarkson for Derrick Favors? Just tried on the espn trade machine and it works. We could send their 2nd round pick back that they gave us for him. They both are expiring contracts. They are not going to make playoffs and can't imagine Favors is in nthe long term plans with Hayes on the roster needing minutes.

Favors was big for us in playoffs. knows the system. Good locker room guy. Fixes our backup center issue. Last year, our bench offense was focused on Favors pick and role, so should help with our 2nd team offense.

Small ball is a thing, but this year, there has been a trend for bringing back two bigs to playing together (lakers, sixers, milwauke, etc.)

Would love to have him back and I think he makes us a more dangerous playoff team than what Clarkson does.

[Raupie]

Starting unit of: Joe, Donovan, Royce, Bogey, and Gobert is pretty good. Joe works really well with Rudy and you can tell Rudy loves playing with him. That unit has enough fire power and has pretty good defense.

Bench is way too small... weren't very good defensively vs Blazers and they were small... desperately need some size... at one point, was Mudiay, Clarkson, Mitchell, Davis, and Niang... was not a fan of that lineup at all. Too much 1 on 1, not enough ball movement, not enough defense, not enough size.

I never watched Davis before this year, people say he used to be pretty good. But I don't see anything I like about him other than he hustles.... but he is out sized, out muscled, and has 0 offensive game. Backup center is where we need an upgrade...

[JAZZNC]

No thanks to Favors coming back. We needed a guy off the bench that can go get a bucket and that's what Clarkson can do. Favors isn't coming back to play 18mins a game. We need a legit back up 4 now. Niang ain't it. He's OK for spot minutes but we need somebody who can play a little better defense and is a little more athletic. He's q good spot up shooter but that's about it. I know Quinn hates playing younger guys but Brantley needs to start getting at least a little playing time. But who knows, he may not be on top of the defensive/offensive system. I dunno.

I do agree that our 4 guard rotation is extremely small. Would be nice to have at least one guard in the rotation that's 6'6" or so.

[dhopisthename]

two great wins in a row for the Jazz. Clarkson has looked great. Bradley still can't not foul, but he only gets 15 minutes so he can probably last long enough. just having a guy that is a threat on a pick and roll is such a game changer for the teams offense that whatever Ed davis gives you on defense isn't good enough.

For now the rotation looks like
Donovan/Mudiay
Royce/Clarkson
Joe/
Bojan/Niang
Gobert/Bradley

I think when Conley gets back it goes to
Conley/Mudiay
Donovan/clarkson
Joe/royce
Bojan/Niang
Gobdet/Bradley

which is probably pretty important to start getting some of these starter minutes down to like 32ish not the 35+ they are at right now.

[JAZZNC]

Is it scary to anyone else that we've been playing much better basketball without Conley? Also that we obviously made some terrible signings in the off-season with Green and Davis. I know they didn't cost anything in the grand scheme of things but they were supposed to be a big part of the team and were total flops.

Clarkson has been a revelation for sure. Only 3 games in he has already had the highest scoring game off the bench for us. Exactly what we needed. I still think we need a big guard but with Royce being able to defend 2-4 that may not be a huge issue.

That win against the Clippers was huge. Shows we can at least compete against one of the top teams out West. I think we match up better with them than we do the Lakers.

[Raupie]

I continue to hear arguments both ways. There are some who say that Conley got hurt right as our schedule got easier, so us playing better has nothing to do with him being out. However, I think our starters right now are well balance and a great combination...

You can't send Ingles back to the bench. He has been too good. Doing so sends the wrong message as well as hurts the team.

The only option is sending Royce to the bench. But our starting unit needs his defense and rebounding. He has been awesome this season. efficient scorer, great defender, a perfect fit on the starting unit.

Regardless of what people think about Conley, there is no player in our starting unit who should move to the bench... which means Conley would be coming off the bench...

I think he could be fine in that role. Maybe be the leader of that second unit... I don't think his ego would like that and he would be WAYYYY overpaid for that role... so what to do.. what to do....

Is it scary to anyone else that we've been playing much better basketball without Conley? Also that we obviously made some terrible signings in the off-season with Green and Davis. I know they didn't cost anything in the grand scheme of things but they were supposed to be a big part of the team and were total flops.

Clarkson has been a revelation for sure. Only 3 games in he has already had the highest scoring game off the bench for us. Exactly what we needed. I still think we need a big guard but with Royce being able to defend 2-4 that may not be a huge issue.

That win against the Clippers was huge. Shows we can at least compete against one of the top teams out West. I think we match up better with them than we do the Lakers.

[dhopisthename]

I think our turnaround is about 70% the schedule and 30% Joe ingles going from really bad to being unsustainably good. The reality is that we haven't been winning our games by some impressive margin till the last two. luckily our schedule is pretty soft till the 20th although its a ton of road games so maybe it won't be that easy.

[Raupie]

Conley Trade Ideas:

- Conley and 2 first round picks for Tobias Harris (Jazz could use a legit stretch 4, Sixers could use an actual PG who can create shots for their championship run)

-Conley for Goran Dragic and Justice Winslow (Jazz get a replacement backup PG and a play making 4... Miami gets a 2nd star that would fit well with Butler)

- Conley to NY for Portis and Morris (Portis can play backup PG and C while Morris would become the starting PF... New York gets a respected veteran who can mentor their young team and ideally help recruit players to New York)

-Conley for Kevin Love (Love would be a good fit for us... at least in the first year or two... bad contract after that.... Cavs don't really need another PG)

- Conley to Orlando for Gordon and Aminu (Aminu has been hurt and a disappointment, so he is salary filler. Gordon would gie the Jazz some size and athleticism)

- Conley to Denver for Millsap (welcome home Paul! Denver gets a leader... that they desperately need)

[Wes Mantooth]

I continue to hear arguments both ways. There are some who say that Conley got hurt right as our schedule got easier, so us playing better has nothing to do with him being out. However, I think our starters right now are well balance and a great combination...

You can't send Ingles back to the bench. He has been too good. Doing so sends the wrong message as well as hurts the team.

The only option is sending Royce to the bench. But our starting unit needs his defense and rebounding. He has been awesome this season. efficient scorer, great defender, a perfect fit on the starting unit.

Regardless of what people think about Conley, there is no player in our starting unit who should move to the bench... which means Conley would be coming off the bench...

I think he could be fine in that role. Maybe be the leader of that second unit... I don't think his ego would like that and he would be WAYYYY overpaid for that role... so what to do.. what to do....

I like Conley off the bench. He led a team of scrubs last year. That may be where he can help us best. That said, there is no freaking way coach will do that. For the same reason Favors had to play the first 5 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarter last year instead of come off the bench. David Locke calls it the "rightful order of the basketball universe". Players like Conley don't come off the bench. In a perfect world Conley and Quinn would both be fine with it.

[Raupie]

I like Conley off the bench. He led a team of scrubs last year. That may be where he can help us best. That said, there is no freaking way coach will do that. For the same reason Favors had to play the first 5 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarter last year instead of come off the bench. David Locke calls it the "rightful order of the basketball universe". Players like Conley don't come off the bench. In a perfect world Conley and Quinn would both be fine with it.

I listen to Locked on Jazz with David Locke as well, definitely a good podcast. And I agree, the Jazz try to show veterans respect and so will not sit a player of Conley's pedigree. This is why I feel a trade is the only answer, not only for this year, but for next year as well.

Between Conley and Ed Davis, they will be making about 40 million next year, that is over 1/3 of our salary and neither are helping the Jazz win. We have Royce Oneal, Mudiay, and Clarkson as key free agents next year, as well as some of our young guys. I know the Millers have said they are willing to go into luxury tax if needed, but I don't think anyone wants to go into Luxury tax if the solution is getting rid of a player who is not as impactful.

Based on Conley's decline, would you rather have Mudiay next year or Conley? Mudiay is a physical gifted player, young, and getting better every day. Conley is a smaller, older player who seems to be getting worse every day. Even if he comes back and plays well... what is his value over replacement? Meaning, how much better is he than the person whose minutes he is taking away? And is that worth the money?

I am not bashing Conley, I think when healthy he can provide value to a team, but I don't think that team is the Jazz.

And while we are add it... lets get rid of Ed Davis... did anyone watch his minutes last night in garbage time? He looked worse than all of our young players getting their first NBA minutes.... where as a player like Niang looked like an all-star vs scrubs. I am not saying Davis is a bad player, but he doesn't fit what we do and it looks like not playing is wearing on him... so hopefully we are able to move him, even if we don't get anything in return other than a roster spot and cap relieve for next season.

[dhopisthename]

I 100% agree with you on Ed Davis. like I don't get why he looks so bad out there or rather how he has looked good ever in his career based on what he has shown in utah. I think he just needs to get out of here to get out of his own head and get back to doing what he does well. this is a guy who had a .632ts% last year and his previous year was pretty good as well. I am sure that the jazz are looking at his salary as a trade filler if they can get another trade done. not sure what they would be looking for at this point, but his 4.7 could help.

Also minor note, but I saw today a Horford for Conley trade idea. #1 Horfords contract is gross. #2 i don't want another PF thats more a center on this team. that also includes PF's that can't guard anyone or switch at all like Love. The Lakers have two bigs because Davis is a awesome 2 way player. if you want a PF he needs to both defend and shoot.

I personally haven't given up on conley at all. in no small part in that if we honestly want to do anything more then be a 1st or 2nd round exit, he has to be great for us. those trades a few spaces up aren't changing who we are realistically the jazz are(with the exception of harris. that one is still interesting although is contract is just trash)

[Raupie]

I am not really interested in Horford. What is unique about us is we are in a "win now" mode, but our stars are on the younger side, so any piece we add should help us this year, but also make sense for the next few years. Horford would be an upgrade for us at backup center, but as you mention, his contact is not great and he is quickly declining.

I agree that Conley is pretty much unmoveable, even if we wanted to trade him. His contract and lack of production would cost us assets to move him, not bring us assets.

The only team I can think of that may be interested in Ed Davis is the Nets. He was great for them. Maybe a 2nd round pick and Davis for Garrett Temple?

Backup center is not a position that most (if any) teams are looking for. Especially one that has not been playing well.

[dhopisthename]

man our 2nd half schedule is really interesting. the next 7ish are fairly easy then it goes straight into hard mode. vs Dallas, vs houston, @ san antonio, @ denver, @ portland, @ denver, vs portland, @ houston, @ dallas, vs miami, vs san antonio, vs houston, vs phoenix, vs boston then it takes a bit of a break, but that stretch right there we might be lucky to go .500. where we have a chance is that at least san antonio and Portland aren't that great, but still the spurs haven't been playing that bad lately. in fact they just beat the bucks and the celtics.

[JAZZNC]

man our 2nd half schedule is really interesting. the next 7ish are fairly easy then it goes straight into hard mode. vs Dallas, vs houston, @ san antonio, @ denver, @ portland, @ denver, vs portland, @ houston, @ dallas, vs miami, vs san antonio, vs houston, vs phoenix, vs boston then it takes a bit of a break, but that stretch right there we might be lucky to go .500. where we have a chance is that at least san antonio and Portland aren't that great, but still the spurs haven't been playing that bad lately. in fact they just beat the bucks and the celtics.

Well if we are going to be a good team then we need to win 60+% of those games in that stretch. It'll be a very telling part of the schedule. We really need Conley to get back and get his sorry *** into form. But we've been playing the best basketball of the year without him so that really does worry me.

[Raupie]

I feel the days of getting blown out are behind us. We have enough capable scorers that if someone is having a bad night, then they are fine going with someone else. If a team has a lock down defender, we can just go to one of our other guys who has a weaker defender and all of our players are threats, so teams can't afford to double team us anywhere. Our team is unselfish now is we don't have to keep going to one person to "get them going".

Like JAZZNC, that is what worries me most about when they try to bring Conley back into it. He would shoot alot, regardless of whether it was going in so that he can find his rythm... But he only found his rhythm a few times this season, so the rest of the time he was very inefficient. When he comes back, we have too many other efficient scorers, so if he is not hitting shoots, he needs to create looks for others who are.

The only reason I am at all excited to have him back is I want some closure on what it will be moving forward... Is he going to fit or not... I don't want question marks still existing as we get closer to the playoffs