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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    They are pretty justified in not it throwing any assets for the rumored players they were linked with. Butler/PG/Leonard/Davis all forced their way to other destinations and would not have stayed. Cs would have ended up with nothing and in a much worse spot right now.

    Cs did make all the right moves. They pulled the trigger on Kyrie. And they got Horford and Hayward in FA. The Hayward injury really derailed them. Thatís just bad luck. He was a top 25 player. Who knows how it would have been had that never happened. At this point they are better off committing to the young guys and keeping a core of Smart/Brown/Tatum while Hayward gets traded/comes off the books.


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    Don't get me wrong, you make good points. I'm not saying they did a bad job, they are in a very similar situation to where the Clippers were at when Griffin and Paul ran it's course. You can see the end result and I just think everyone expected better. Lot's better tbh.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Gotta agree with TrueFan420 here. I know the cap wonít go down a ton but it could affect offers next summer. And since he woulda been a RFA, the Celtics could still go over to sign him after doing something else (assuming they have room). Also, what if he gets hurt? What if he takes steps back and isnít worth it after all? What if someone else steps up and Brown becomes a great trade chip before heís locked in? I remember when some team did this with Mike Dunleavey (I think) and people were saying how the team that did that was betting against themselves and now 4 or 5 teams did this very thing this year.

    And why would the cap going down affect things this much? Will none of these teams have cap room so they want to just finalize things now? Not really getting it but apparently itís the right thing to do?
    The cap is going down 15% it's not only significant but historic. If the NBA didn't have so much guaraenteed money or deals already signed that could fluctuate with the cap, percentage wise, year to year, it would be less of an issue losing 15% of your revenue. As it is though, Chris Paul (for example) makes $41.36 million next season regardless, if the cap is $50 million or $150 million and he's still getting paid his set amount.

    There will be very few teams with cap next season, especially large amounts of cap. But its the players and agents pushing to get deals done. It's just one less thing teams have to worry about, gives you an additional asset. Hield and Brown said they would enter restricted free agency to posture and get more money, until they realized no teams are gonna have money to sign them to a favorable offer sheet.

    So, signing now safe guards the player from injury, less stress through the season and doesn't matter what they cap does next summer because they're locked in. Teams typically want to hold onto decent young guys too.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    This is inaccurate. He shoots 36.5% in his 3 year career. League average the last 3 years is 35.5%, 36.2% and 35.8%.

    The key for him is to not have a bad start like last year. He was dreadful to start the year, then sat out a few games with an injury. From December on last year he shot 37.8% after shooting 39.5% the year before. So as long as last yearís bad first month is an outlier and the rest of the last 2 years is more representative of who he is, heís pretty solidly a good shooter. And even if that bad stretch is recurring with overall streakiness, heís still about league average over the balance of his career.
    OK he shoot 35% on wide open 3s. Why are we pretending he can shoot?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  4. #34
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    If the cap does go down, 115M would probably be around his max. So you're paying him more than he could have gotten next summer bc other teams can't offer the same raises. Plus there will be a lot less bidders, eapecially for RFAs. Few teams have money a year from now. Unless it came at a discount, it was worth waiting.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    OK he shoot 35% on wide open 3s. Why are we pretending he can shoot?
    Because the numbers I cited show that he can lol

    No one is calling him Steph Curry, theyíre calling him a capable shooter. But IDK, it seems like in your mind his percentage is bad even though league data says itís not. Heís a mid 30s percentage 3 point shooter which numbers wise is league average, Ewing scale wise is bad. Thatís what he is, however someone chooses to perceive it. Those are locked in production numbers.

    With him being 22 we also canít assume his numbers will be static and I cited some encouraging splits to think towards the higher end of the 30 percentages is very possible going forward, considering thatís the level heís been at the majority of the last 2 years outside of a very bad all around start last year where he really struggled to adapt to a new role in the team pecking order.

    So over this 4 year deal Iím projecting he will up his shooting from ďleague averageĒ percentages to ďalrightĒ percentages. Wonít be much of an asset in that regard but a little better than neutral, which is what heís been to date.


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Trading Hayward for front court help makes sense in theory but I donít see a particular deal happening that meets that.
    Hayward is still an unknown with his injury. Will he continue to be a shell of himself or make it back to form the way back like Paul George.
    If he makes it all the way back, he was a top 15-25 player before injury. I get positional fit but if he make it back to that then I think Boston will be better off just going with a GS style, perimeter based offense with 4 perimeter guys around a ďmehĒ center like Looney.
    But if he continues to be a shell of himself I donít see anyone giving you a quality big for him.
    So there really isnít a situation where what youíre saying comes to fruition IMO. Great theory but the particulars of a trade wonít line up IMO.
    You'd need a team with a higher risk profile. I was thinking Toronto might be a decent trade partner ó maybe Hayward to Toronto for Gasol and Hernandez.
    Gasol's old, but he's a good approximation of a guy like Horford. He can pass, shoot and provide good interior defense. He has championship experience, and he probably won't get paid like Horford on his next contract. Hernandez is a reserve center and a possible asset on a rookie deal. Boston keeps flexibility for the free agent market.
    This seems like a reasonable risk for a Toronto team that probably isn't appealing to free agents. Hayward might be redundant with Anunoby and Siakam, but not as much so as with Tatum and Brown. It also doesn't lock Toronto in for long, in case Ujiri wants to flip Hayward's expiring and/or blow it up in two years.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Tobias Harris got 5/180 lmao. Brown still hasnít turned 23.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZH721 View Post
    Tobias Harris got 5/180 lmao. Brown still hasnít turned 23.
    In Harris defense he is better at basketball
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    In Harris defense he is better at basketball
    Brown still isnít 23.

    If Harris gets 5/180 then Brown is worth 4/115 at his age. Brown was getting this contract at the end of the year, whether it was from the Celtics or someone else.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    Iím not sure why you think it was premature and why you think he wouldnít get a big offer in FA. It was smart to lock him up now before the uncertainty of next summer. Thatís why all the other teams and agents rushed to get deals done now (Siakam/Hield). He would have likely gotten a full max offer sheet from someone. Cs got him on a good deal. Heís younger than both Siakam and Hield. Siakam right now is better but Brown is a better overall player than Hield. So he basically got the in between.

    He averages 14 ppg because thereís multiple mouths to feed in Boston. If Brown was playing on some Mickey Mouse team like the Suns or Cavaliers as a first or second option, heíd average 20 pts ppg and (would have likely developed much faster). The Cs are banking on him morphing into that type of player with more responsibility/opportunities/touches. The Cs believe heíll get there over the course of that contract.


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    It's easy to say "someone" without context. Can you suggest some realistic teams with space? I believe there's less than you think.

    I'd rather gamble. The savings wasn't much versus a full max anyway. Without doing the math, the full max offer sheet should have been around $125M, right?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZH721 View Post
    Brown still isnít 23.

    If Harris gets 5/180 then Brown is worth 4/115 at his age. Brown was getting this contract at the end of the year, whether it was from the Celtics or someone else.
    Ok and Harris got more money then him b/c he is better at basketball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Ok and Harris got more money then him b/c he is better at basketball.
    Ok. Not sure exactly why you even replied to me if thatís the only thing youíre going to say. My point still stands.

    Harris is 4 years older and Brown has more potential than him.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZH721 View Post
    Ok. Not sure exactly why you even replied to me if thatís the only thing youíre going to say. My point still stands.

    Harris is 4 years older and Brown has more potential than him.
    How does he have more potential? At best he gets to where Harris is but I doubt it. He is a good defender, an active body, and can fill the lanes. He is relatively unskilled, has an ugly shot, and is less versatile then Harris.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    The cap is going down 15% it's not only significant but historic. If the NBA didn't have so much guaraenteed money or deals already signed that could fluctuate with the cap, percentage wise, year to year, it would be less of an issue losing 15% of your revenue. As it is though, Chris Paul (for example) makes $41.36 million next season regardless, if the cap is $50 million or $150 million and he's still getting paid his set amount.

    There will be very few teams with cap next season, especially large amounts of cap. But its the players and agents pushing to get deals done. It's just one less thing teams have to worry about, gives you an additional asset. Hield and Brown said they would enter restricted free agency to posture and get more money, until they realized no teams are gonna have money to sign them to a favorable offer sheet.

    So, signing now safe guards the player from injury, less stress through the season and doesn't matter what they cap does next summer because they're locked in. Teams typically want to hold onto decent young guys too.
    If itís true that his max woulda been $125 and he got $118 then Ainge dropped thevall again. I doubt anyone wouldíve had that much for Brown. Then again, maybe itís best just to make the guy happy and bond now instead having that tension all year like others have assumed.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    How does he have more potential? At best he gets to where Harris is but I doubt it. He is a good defender, an active body, and can fill the lanes. He is relatively unskilled, has an ugly shot, and is less versatile then Harris.


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    I must be looking at the wrong Tobias Harris. Since when is this guy anything other than an inconsistent but talented scorer? Brown is already a better defender, more athletic, and has the same career 3PT%.

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