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View Poll Results: Who would win this best-of-7 series?

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  • Team 3 Stacks

    7 38.89%
  • MBT's Team

    8 44.44%
  • GM's vote here

    3 16.67%
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  1. #1
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    Redraft Playoffs: Team 3 Stacks vs. MBT's Team

    Team 3 Stacks (Homecourt Advantage)

    PG: Ben Simmons / D.J Augustine
    SG: Bogdan Bogdanović / Admiral Schofield
    SF: Klay Thompson / Rodions Kurucs
    PF: Tobias Harris / Jonathan Isaac
    C: Domantas Sabonis / Deandre Ayton

    vs.


    MBT's Team

    PG: Kemba Walker (36) / Trey Burke (12)
    SG: Caris Levert (20) / Josh Hart (21) / Justin Jackson (7)
    SF: Rudy Gay (20) / Caris Levert (14) / Justin Jackson (14)
    PF: Blake Griffin (36) / Rudy Gay (12)
    C: Jusuf Nurkic (30) / Noah Vonleh (18) / Joakim Noah




    *note this is not real. please vote on who you think would win. This is the culmination of a group of users on PSD drafting players in a snake draft. Please look at each team and determine who would win in a SEVEN game series. DO NOT VOTE ON TEAM FANDOM LINES.

  2. #2
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    Team 3 Stacks is a great roster construction around Ben Simmons, who would run roughshod over MBT's guards and forwards.

  3. #3
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    I don't have a ton of time this week to do a writeup, and I may not have a ton of time to really debate. But I'll pose this question, which I think pushes the matchup into my favor and build some points around that question: Who is the crunch time scorer on the opposing team?

    Consider the following facts:

    1. Klay Thompson's career postseason numbers (14.1 PER, .091 WS/48, 0.9 BPM) are not great for someone who's probably expected to be their No. 1 scoring threat. Also, the vast majority of his field goals in his career (a staggering 81% last season) were assisted on. So not only does he underperform in the postseason, but he doesn't create for himself. He's a 3 and D player who thrives in a movement-heavy offensive system and gets most of his points in catch and shoot situations. His offense is definitely not the Warriors' offense.

    2. Ben Simmons' jump shot is so wildly unreliable that it made the front page of ESPN when he made a 3-pointer in a preseason game. A whopping 90.5% of Simmons' field goal attempts in his career have come within 10 feet of the basket.

    3a. Nobody on his team averaged 22 points per game in the regular season last year, and his three top stars (Thompson, Simmons and Harris) averaged 20.7, 13.9 and 15.5 points per game in the postseason last year. My top two stars—Kemba and Blake—averaged 25.6 and 24.5 points per game last season.

    3b. But, no, you think "MBT's wrong. The other team is super balanced—you don't need elite scorers to win in the NBA." False. All four of the final teams in the playoffs last year had scorers top at least 25+ PPG last season, and seven of the eight had scorers top at least 23.5+. I don't have time to get into this in more depth, but if you look at historic teams in NBA history, there aren't a lot of teams without elite individual scorers—the '04 Pistons are the exception, not the rule. "Balance" is nice, but you win the postseason with elite individual scorers.

    4. I ran a filter on NBA.com's advanced clutch-time scoring among players who played in 25+ close games last season (most qualifying players). Among those players, Kemba and Blake were 3rd and 19th, respectively, in clutch scoring per game (points scored in the last five minutes of close games) with 4.5 points and 2.9 points. Harris and Thompson were 61st and 63rd, respectively, with 1.7 and 1.6 points in those situations.

    5. Blake and Kemba are both among the top 20 players in the league, are elite scorers coming off of career years and are great playmakers (especially Blake at his respective position). That Caris Levert kid is pretty good too—in the small sample size of the Nets postseason run last year, he led the team in scoring at 21 PPG. Bottom line, there is no shortage of go-to players on my team who can create for themselves and others in crunchtime minutes. I'd seriously question a team's late game offensive prowess that's so reliant on No. 2 and No. 3 guys like Thompson, Simmons and Harris.

    (I'd keep going with this, but that's as much time as I have this week for any kind of a legitimate writeup. I'll try to counter points as they come up as time allows, but things are just way too freaking busy right now.)
    Last edited by mightybosstone; 10-10-2019 at 10:21 AM.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I don't have a ton of time this week to do a writeup, and I may not have a ton of time to really debate. But I'll pose this question, which I think pushes the matchup into my favor and build some points around that question: Who is the crunch time scorer on the opposing team?

    Consider the following facts:
    1. Klay Thompson's career postseason numbers (14.1 PER, .091 WS/48, 0.9 BPM) are not great for someone who's probably expected to be their No. 1 scoring threat. Also, the vast majority of his field goals in his career (a staggering 81% last season) were assisted on. So not only does he underperform in the postseason, but he doesn't create for himself. He's a 3 and D player who thrives in a movement-heavy offensive system and gets most of his points in catch and shoot situations. His offense is definitely not the Warriors' offense.
    2. Ben Simmons' jump shot is so wildly unreliable that it made the front page of ESPN when he made a 3-pointer in a preseason game. A whopping 90.5% of Simmons' field goal attempts in his career have come within 10 feet of the basket.
    3a. Nobody on his team averaged 22 points per game in the regular season last year, and his three top stars (Thompson, Simmons and Harris) averaged 20.7, 13.9 and 15.5 points per game in the postseason last year. My top two stars—Kemba and Blake—averaged 25.6 and 24.5 points per game last season.
    3b. But, no, you think "MBT's wrong. The other team is super balanced—you don't need elite scorers to win in the NBA." False. All four of the final teams in the playoffs last year had scorers top at least 25+ PPG last season, and seven of the eight had scorers top at least 23.5+. I don't have time to get into this in more depth, but if you look at historic teams in NBA history, there aren't a lot of teams without elite inidividual scorers—the '04 Pistons are the exception, not the rule. "Balance" is nice, but you win the postseason with elite individual scorers.
    4. I ran a filter on NBA.com's advanced clutch-time scoring among players who played in 25+ close games last season (most qualifying players). Among those players, Kemba and Blake were 3rd and 19th, respectively, in clutch scoring per game (points scored in the last five minutes of close games) with 4.5 points and 2.9 points. Harris and Thompson were 61st and 63rd, respectively, with 1.7 and 1.6 points in those situations.
    5. Blake and Kemba are both among the top 20 players in the league, are elite scorers coming off of career years and are great playmakers (especially Blake at his respective position). That Caris Levert kid is pretty good too—in the small sample size of the Nets postseason run last year, he led the team in scoring at 21 PPG. Bottom line, there is no shortage of go-to players on my team who can create for themselves and others in crunchtime minutes. I'd seriously question a team's late game offensive prowess that's so reliant on No. 2 and No. 3 guys like Thompson, Simmons and Harris.

    (I'd keep going with this, but that's as much time as I have this week for any kind of a legitimate writeup. I'll try to counter points as they come up as time allows, but things are just way too freaking busy right now.)
    provide the link on the clutch numbers I'm curious

  5. #5
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    Just too much talent for MBT to deal with. 3-stacks has a very good 8-man rotation and I don't see the defensive answer to slowing Simmons/Bogdan/Klay in the back-court. Nurk also has his hands full with 48 minutes of Sabonis and Ayton coming at him.

    Homecourt, Significantly better depth, more talent in the starting 5. Blake and Kemba are 2 of the better players in the series, but don't see enough on the defensive end to slow down the better 8-man rotation.
    Last edited by The_Jamal; 10-10-2019 at 12:30 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jamal View Post
    Just too much talent for MBT to deal with. 3-stacks has a very good 8-man rotation and I don't see the defensive answer to slowing Simmons/Bogdan/Klay in the back-court. Nurk also has his hands full with 48 minutes of Sabonis and Ayton coming at him.

    Homecourt, Significantly better depth, more talent in the starting 5. Blake and Kemba are 2 of the better players in the series, but don't see enough on the defensive end to slow down the better 8-man rotation.
    I think you're giving them way too much credit if you think they're more talented. Deeper maybe? OK, I'll buy that. But certainly not more talented in the starting five or among the top players on each team. If we went position by position in the starting five, I think my squad has a big edge at PF and C and a slight edge at PG and SG. That's four of five positions.

    Defensively, aside from Nurkic, I wouldn't say I have any elite defenders in my starting five, but nobody who's a total sieve defensively either. And I've got competent perimeter defenders in the rotation who shouldn't be getting torched on a nightly basis by Klay.


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    provide the link on the clutch numbers I'm curious
    I'll track it down later when I get a minute.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    provide the link on the clutch numbers I'm curious
    https://stats.nba.com/players/clutch...on&CF=GP*GE*25


  9. #9
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    I think MBT would bludgeon 3 stacks in the middle, and there's nobody to guard Kemba. That interior is too soft to guard and out-rebound Nurk and Blake, plus there's no help defense either to help on Kemba drives. Woulda been nice if 3stacks had a rim protector to backup Sabonis, but instead they have another bad defender.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadds The Gr8 View Post
    I think MBT would bludgeon 3 stacks in the middle, and there's nobody to guard Kemba. That interior is too soft to guard and out-rebound Nurk and Blake, plus there's no help defense either to help on Kemba drives. Woulda been nice if 3stacks had a rim protector to backup Sabonis, but instead they have another bad defender.
    Who is guarding Ben Simmons with numerous outside shooters? 6'1 Kemba Walker? Not quite sure where you are getting that because both Harris and Sabonis are better rebounders than Nurkic and Blake. If anyone is soft it's Blake Griffin. I also have Isaac off the bench who is a lengthy and extremely efficient defensive player to be pesky at SF/PF.

    If only Sabonis was a bad defender...?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadds The Gr8 View Post
    I think MBT would bludgeon 3 stacks in the middle, and there's nobody to guard Kemba. That interior is too soft to guard and out-rebound Nurk and Blake, plus there's no help defense either to help on Kemba drives. Woulda been nice if 3stacks had a rim protector to backup Sabonis, but instead they have another bad defender.


    Yes, so much this. The advantage in the front court can't be overlooked. Look at the head-to-head stats of Nurkic and Sabonis, and although it's a small sample size, it gives you an idea of how significant the edge is at center:
    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    Sabonis isn't a shot blocker either, so his defenders are going to have to work exceptionally hard to keep Kemba, Levert and Blake from getting to the rim. Are we really going to trust Bogdan to keep up with Levert, for Simmons to run the offense and shadow Kemba for 30+ minutes a night, and Harris not to get destroyed by Blake? I wouldn't like those odds if I were Westbrook.


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbrook36 View Post
    Who is guarding Ben Simmons with numerous outside shooters? 6'1 Kemba Walker?
    Why should I be so terrified about a guy who averaged less than 14 points per game last postseason is going to go off on a shorter defender? He put up a whopping 11.6 points per game matched up against little Kyle Lowry in the Philly/Toronto series last year. And if he drives to the rim and expects an open lane, I actually have a legitimate center in the paint who can block shots.

    What is your strategy for when Kemba and Levert attack the rim? What are you going to do when Blake abuses a a smaller "power forward" in Harris on a nightly basis?

    Not quite sure where you are getting that because both Harris and Sabonis are better rebounders than Nurkic and Blake. If anyone is soft it's Blake Griffin. I also have Isaac off the bench who is a lengthy and extremely efficient defensive player to be pesky at SF/PF.

    If only Sabonis was a bad defender...?
    Mmm... I don't think you can definitively say Harris and Sabonis are superior rebounders. Not in the slightest. On their careers, Nurkic's TRB% (19%) is much higher than Sabonis' (16.4%), and Sabonis' edge last season was pretty minuscule (20.8% to 20.2%). Blake vs. Harris on the glass is a similar narrative. Blake has a huge historic edge on TRB% (14.6% to 10.8%), while Harris had a slight edge last season (12.0% to 11.8%).

    Also, Nurkic owned Sabonis on the glass in the head-to-head stats I posted above.


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Why should I be so terrified about a guy who averaged less than 14 points per game last postseason is going to go off on a shorter defender? He put up a whopping 11.6 points per game matched up against little Kyle Lowry in the Philly/Toronto series last year. And if he drives to the rim and expects an open lane, I actually have a legitimate center in the paint who can block shots.

    What is your strategy for when Kemba and Levert attack the rim? What are you going to do when Blake abuses a a smaller "power forward" in Harris on a nightly basis?



    Mmm... I don't think you can definitively say Harris and Sabonis are superior rebounders. Not in the slightest. On their careers, Nurkic's TRB% (19%) is much higher than Sabonis' (16.4%), and Sabonis' edge last season was pretty minuscule (20.8% to 20.2%). Blake vs. Harris on the glass is a similar narrative. Blake has a huge historic edge on TRB% (14.6% to 10.8%), while Harris had a slight edge last season (12.0% to 11.8%).

    Also, Nurkic owned Sabonis on the glass in the head-to-head stats I posted above.
    You are a comparing a completely flawed team in the 76ers with no depth or surrounding shooters to this team that is perfectly built around Simmons and Klay Thompson. He'll dish it to the numerous highly efficient shooters:

    Three point shooting alone:
    Klay Thompson 7.7 attempts at 40%
    Bogdan Bogdanovic 5.1 attempts at 36%
    Tobias Harris 4.8 attempts at 38%
    DJ Augustine 3.8 attempts at 42%

    Otherwise he can feel free to move around the slow footed Nurkic or pass it to a premium play making center in Sabonis who has great vision. Really looking forward to Nurkic running the court when the pace picks up too.

    Sabonis is a perfectly capable player down low defensively and there are no glaring weaknesses defensively with this starting unit regarding team defense on collapsing the lanes when driving. Shot blocking is not the end all of post defense -- It's a counting stat. This team can throw Simmons, Harris, and Isaac at Blake on a nightly biases. No problem with Augustine running point as he's a perfect compliment to Simmons with his shooting..unlike TJ McConnell.


    Nurkic has been in the league longer compared to Sabonis who is an ascending player. Blake Griffin is a shell of himself compared to his earlier days where he actually could rebound at a higher clip.
    Last edited by Westbrook36; 10-10-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbrook36 View Post
    You are a comparing a completely flawed team in the 76ers with no depth or surrounding shooters to this team that is perfectly built around Simmons and Klay Thompson. He'll dish it to the numerous highly efficient shooters:

    Three point shooting alone:
    Klay Thompson 7.7 attempts at 40%
    Bogdan Bogdanovic 5.1 attempts at 36%
    Tobias Harris 4.8 attempts at 38%
    DJ Augustine 3.8 attempts at 42%
    Ummm..... I hate to break it to you:

    JJ Reddick also shot 40% last season on 8.0 attempts.
    Harris is still on your team.
    How is Augustine going to be on the court at the same time as Simmons? Is he playing off ball?
    Your one real edge is Bogdanovic over Butler, but that kind of ignores the fact that Embiid is a more reliable 3-point shooter than Sabonis (although neither is great).

    So what huge edge in 3-point shooting does your team really have on the current 76ers? I'm not seeing one.

    Otherwise he can feel free to move around the slow footed Nurkic or pass it to a premium play making center in Sabonis who has great vision. Really looking forward to Nurkic running the court when the pace picks up too.
    Umm... Nurkic was one of the best defensive centers in the NBA last season. He was 10th in the whole league in DBPM. I think calling him "slow-footed" is a pretty huge stretch.

    Sabonis is a perfectly capable player down low defensively and there are no glaring weaknesses defensively with this starting unit regarding team defense on collapsing the lanes when driving. This team can throw Simmons, Harris, and Isaac at Blake on a nightly biases. No problem with Augustine running point as he's a perfect compliment to Simmons with his shooting..unlike TJ McConnell.
    Except shot blocking, which you conveniently ignored. Unless you're going to play Isaac 30+ minutes per night—I would advised against it...

    Nurkic has been in the league longer compared to Sabonis who is an ascending player. Blake Griffin is a shell of himself compared to his earlier days where he actually could rebound at a higher clip.
    Except if you actually looked at the head-to-head stats, Sabonis got dominated last season by Nurkic and the Blazers. Also, I never said Blake was the same rebounder he was in his first few seasons, but even with his decline on the glass, his TRB% was basically identical to Harris'. Also, Blake's range makes him far more dangerous today than he ever was in LA. Harris on Blake is just a flat out mismatch.


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Ummm..... I hate to break it to you:

    JJ Reddick also shot 40% last season on 8.0 attempts.
    Harris is still on your team.
    How is Augustine going to be on the court at the same time as Simmons? Is he playing off ball?
    Your one real edge is Bogdanovic over Butler, but that kind of ignores the fact that Embiid is a more reliable 3-point shooter than Sabonis (although neither is great).

    So what huge edge in 3-point shooting does your team really have on the current 76ers? I'm not seeing one.

    Umm... Nurkic was one of the best defensive centers in the NBA last season. He was 10th in the whole league in DBPM. I think calling him "slow-footed" is a pretty huge stretch.

    Except shot blocking, which you conveniently ignored. Unless you're going to play Isaac 30+ minutes per night—I would advised against it...

    Except if you actually looked at the head-to-head stats, Sabonis got dominated last season by Nurkic and the Blazers. Also, I never said Blake was the same rebounder he was in his first few seasons, but even with his decline on the glass, his TRB% was basically identical to Harris'. Also, Blake's range makes him far more dangerous today than he ever was in LA. Harris on Blake is just a flat out mismatch.
    The difference is that Klay Thompson can do numerous things offensively that JJ can’t do. When Reddick is not hitting the three ball there was major floor spacing issues and he’s essentially useless when he’s not hitting with terrible defense. Harris was a late add on a team that didn’t have a gel on offense, he shot over 40% with the Clippers. Yes, of course? You can do that when you have maximum shooting that this team does – Hell, Brett Brown did it with TJ McConnell. Simmons was played as a PF/C during spurts of games for matchup problems.

    Bogdanovic is an upgrade three-point shooting, but overall as well. Along with Jonathan Isaac who shot 3.5 attempts at a 32% clip to keep the defense honest. This team is a VASTLY better offensive and shooting team surrounding Simmons with no one to really clog the paint such as Embiid.

    We should wrap that up as he’s a better defender than Embiid? That's a nice stat when the team surrounding him gives him plenty of counting stats due to poor overall defense.

    We have length in the starting lineup and off the bench to make up for Sabonis not being a premium shot blocker, we also have Ayton off the bench who provides that length and capability. Don’t have to play Isaac 30 minutes a game, but I’ll take his length, steals, deflections, and blocks for spurts..at a highly efficient rate.

    I’m seeing one game against each other in 2019 so I don’t really see a large enough sample size to create that type of view. It's either Sabonis/Harris are slightly better or it's about even..so Sadds saying they are greatly superior isn't supported. Don’t really think it’s that much of a matchup problem actually. Don’t see why Harris can’t hold his own on the perimeter against Blake or down low..Blake just stat stuffs on a terrible team with no real options.

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