Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 61 of 93 FirstFirst ... 1151596061626371 ... LastLast
Results 901 to 915 of 1387
  1. #901
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,497
    Hereís a question:
    Is bosh HOF without the heat championships?

  2. #902
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,497
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Yes you're suggesting hes too skinny. Whats wrong with you? Are you okay?
    You getting off on this?

    Read the damn comment. Sheesh.

  3. #903
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    3,186
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    You getting off on this?

    Read the damn comment. Sheesh.
    lmfao. You read the comment. I'm not getting off on anything. You seemed stressed. It ain't that serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    He was paper thin until he cycled the offseason before leaving us. Hard to picture him having a career better than Aldridge or some of these other classic PF made C.
    You're implying he is too skinny to play C. In another comment you bring up how he had a Boucher body. So Smith and I had an exchange about how that physique doesn't matter. I used a counterexample using a skinny player. And you randomly talk about Aldridge and Cousins putting up 20 and 10.
    Last edited by ecart; 06-06-2021 at 11:21 PM.

  4. #904
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,497
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    lmfao. You read the comment. I'm not getting off on anything. You seemed stressed. It ain't that serious.



    You're implying he is too skinny to play C. In another comment you bring up how he had a Boucher body. So Smith and I had an exchange about how that physique doesn't matter. I used a counterexample using a skinny player. And you randomly talk about Aldridge and Cousins putting up 20 and 10.
    Yes, bosh would still put up stats at C. That isnít the point. The point is undersized Cís that would classically be PFís in the league are having minimal impact at C these days.
    ď Hard to picture him having a career better than Aldridge or some of these other classic PF made C.Ē

    Siakam would put up stats at C too. Why doesnít he play full time there?

  5. #905
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    3,186
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Yes, bosh would still put up stats at C. That isnít the point. The point is undersized Cís that would classically be PFís in the league are having minimal impact at C these days.
    ď Hard to picture him having a career better than Aldridge or some of these other classic PF made C.Ē

    Siakam would put up stats at C too. Why doesnít he play full time there?
    I don't even understand your argument. You talk about the modern game but you're also saying 5s nowadays are out of position and are undersized. Why are they undersized? What are they unable to accomplish with their lack of size in the MODERN game. The entire league got smaller at the 4 and 5. How would Bosh be undersized? He was barely undersized even in his era. Bosh would be a unicorn in today's league.

    They have minimal impact because they're washed up/old or they're compensating for their inability to defend in space against 3s and 4s by playing at a slower position. The transition to how the game is being played today was swift. A lot of people were caught off by it. You're only now starting to see bigs come out of draft prioritizing their mobility and perimeter skills.

    Where the league went after the 2010s benefitted guys like Bosh entirely. It makes no sense to compare him to LMA when the skillsets they have hold different levels of relevance to today's game. It's not even fandom for Bosh and lack thereof for LMA. The modern game left LMA entirely.
    Last edited by ecart; 06-07-2021 at 11:32 AM.

  6. #906
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,497
    Imo - the dominant Cís of today would still be dominant Cís of yesterday.
    Gobert, jokic, embiid etc fit in any era.

    Because everyone is playing small ball - itís pushing a lot of these would-be PFís into the C position.

    Do you think bosh would have the type of impact at C that those above names have? I donít. I think he would stuff some stars, but I think his overall impact on the game would be similar to LMA or prime cousins. He wasnít a defensive stud like Bam.

    I canít believe weíre even still talking about this. I have my opinion, you have yours. You think bosh would have more impact as a C today then he had as a PF back then? Because his impact was similar to Aldridge when Bosh played PF. He couldnít lead us to anything and needed to be a 3rd option to 2 of the best players in the league to win anything.

    So during his playing days I consider his impact on winning to be similar to LMA. I donít think he would have more impact then he did then, playing C today.

    I bet if you sub in LMA to the heat they win the same amount of championships.

  7. #907
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    3,186
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Imo - the dominant Cís of today would still be dominant Cís of yesterday.
    Gobert, jokic, embiid etc fit in any era.
    Yeah but apart from Gobert they all have a modern skillset. They're exceptions. Gobert gets schemed off the floor against a lot of teams because he lacks a modern skillset. It has nothing to do with their size. Size is the least relevant attribute.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Because everyone is playing small ball - itís pushing a lot of these would-be PFís into the C position.
    So why would being "undersized" be a disadvantage? If 1s are 2s, 2s are 3s, 3s are 4s etc. You're just shuffling the positions. How many minutes did Gobert play in the 4th against the midget Rockets in the playoffs? How did his size advantage help him?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Do you think bosh would have the type of impact at C that those above names have? I donít. I think he would stuff some stars, but I think his overall impact on the game would be similar to LMA or prime cousins. He wasnít a defensive stud like Bam.
    https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10...itz-miami-heat

    Severely overlooking his versatility and how the NBA has changed the last 10 years. How is a guy that can switch and defend in space and has the ability to shoot 3s and put the ball on the floor in the same tier of guys with 90s skillsets?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I canít believe weíre even still talking about this. I have my opinion, you have yours. You think bosh would have more impact as a C today then he had as a PF back then? Because his impact was similar to Aldridge when Bosh played PF. He couldnít lead us to anything and needed to be a 3rd option to 2 of the best players in the league to win anything.

    So during his playing days I consider his impact on winning to be similar to LMA. I donít think he would have more impact then he did then, playing C today.

    I bet if you sub in LMA to the heat they win the same amount of championships.
    The position doesn't even matter. Positions aren't even a thing anymore, it's all based off of matchups nowadays but that's another topic. LMA doesn't have the skillset to play the modern game period. I don't know why you're bringing up the modern game when LMA is the anti-thesis of the modern game. Based on that factor alone, it is obvious LMA wouldn't have a fraction of Bosh's impact in today's game. There may be guys who have similar career production but it's not difficult to imagine they could have had more/less impact depending on the era based on their skillsets. JV is a borderline starter in today's league but he would have been a perennial allstar 20 years ago. Peja would probably have 10k more career points in today's era. Demar's legacy would have been elevated if he played in the 90s.

    It's a team game. You need 2-3 stars to win. He's nowhere in the GOAT conversation, so he's not going to carry his team to the finals singlehandedly like Lebron. But after Davis, Bosh would probably be the second most important two way big in the league today.
    Last edited by ecart; 06-07-2021 at 02:03 PM.

  8. #908
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
    Posts
    30,972
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    He was paper thin until he cycled the offseason before leaving us. Hard to picture him having a career better than Aldridge or some of these other classic PF made C.

    What you're failing to understand when comparing Bosh to a guy like Aldridge was that Bosh could spread the floor. Which is one of the main criteria's for a big man in todays game. Someone like Gobert is a defensive specialist but take a look at the other 5`s you mentioned. Jokic, Embiid, Towns... they can all shoot the ball from range. Bosh could too. He could also run the floor. He could play off the ball, or you could run plays for him. He was very versatile of a big man. He had an all around game that would translate perfectly in todays era.

    And no Bosh was never, ever as skinny as Boucher. Not even close bro. Bosh had a regular frame for a 6`10 guy coming out of college. Most bigs need to add muscle coming out of college. But Boucher is abnormally skinny. He is likely one of the skinniest big men who ever played in the league. The comparisons you make are so exaggerated to prove your point but you're not looking close enough. Bosh`s skill set was different than Aldridge, and Bosh`s body frame was really different than Boucher`s. Neither are really accurate comparisons in the context of what were talking about. When looking at a big men and trying to determine if he can play in todays era you really have to look at their skill set, that's ultimately what determines it. Not really the body type as I`ve see guys as small as 6`5 playing center in todays game.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 06-07-2021 at 02:44 PM.

  9. #909
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
    Posts
    30,972
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Hereís a question:
    Is bosh HOF without the heat championships?
    What if Bosh didn't waste his prime years on the raptors who surrounded him with average talent like Primo pasta and sauce Bargnani, or Ball boy Hedo, or Jose Tobleron, etc etc.
    What if Boshs career wasn't shortened and ended up winning another title by joining another contender
    Or what if Garnet never won a ship by joining a super team, and his career was shortened
    Or how about Webber who never did win a ship, but was riddled with injuries in the 2nd half of his career and still made the HOF

    we can play the what if game all we want, but it goes both ways. what do what ifs prove is what Im asking you.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 06-07-2021 at 02:45 PM.

  10. #910
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
    Posts
    30,972
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Yeah but apart from Gobert they all have a modern skillset. They're exceptions. Gobert gets schemed off the floor against a lot of teams because he lacks a modern skillset. It has nothing to do with their size. Size is the least relevant attribute.



    So why would being "undersized" be a disadvantage? If 1s are 2s, 2s are 3s, 3s are 4s etc. You're just shuffling the positions. How many minutes did Gobert play in the 4th against the midget Rockets in the playoffs? How did his size advantage help him?



    https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10...itz-miami-heat

    Severely overlooking his versatility and how the NBA has changed the last 10 years. How is a guy that can switch and defend in space and has the ability to shoot 3s and put the ball on the floor in the same tier of guys with 90s skillsets?



    The position doesn't even matter. Positions aren't even a thing anymore, it's all based off of matchups nowadays but that's another topic. LMA doesn't have the skillset to play the modern game period. I don't know why you're bringing up the modern game when LMA is the anti-thesis of the modern game. Based on that factor alone, it is obvious LMA wouldn't have a fraction of Bosh's impact in today's game. There may be guys who have similar career production but it's not difficult to imagine they could have had more/less impact depending on the era based on their skillsets. JV is a borderline starter in today's league but he would have been a perennial allstar 20 years ago. Peja would probably have 10k more career points in today's era. Demar's legacy would have been elevated if he played in the 90s.

    It's a team game. You need 2-3 stars to win. He's nowhere in the GOAT conversation, so he's not going to carry his team to the finals singlehandedly like Lebron. But after Davis, Bosh would probably be the second most important two way big in the league today.
    exactly my point all along. Making that comparison is just lazy. Both players are retired, they have a full body of work that we can look back on to compare. If Chong even took 5 minutes to look at the difference in their playing style he would immediately see the difference. But in his eyes Bosh had the same skill set as LMA with a Chris Boucher frame. Couldn't be more off if he tried really.

    The 2nd bolded part is spot on. Thats exactly what I think too.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 06-07-2021 at 02:48 PM.

  11. #911
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
    Posts
    30,972
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Imo - the dominant Cís of today would still be dominant Cís of yesterday.
    Gobert, jokic, embiid etc fit in any era.

    Because everyone is playing small ball - itís pushing a lot of these would-be PFís into the C position.

    Do you think bosh would have the type of impact at C that those above names have? I donít. I think he would stuff some stars, but I think his overall impact on the game would be similar to LMA or prime cousins. He wasnít a defensive stud like Bam.

    I canít believe weíre even still talking about this. I have my opinion, you have yours. You think bosh would have more impact as a C today then he had as a PF back then? Because his impact was similar to Aldridge when Bosh played PF. He couldnít lead us to anything and needed to be a 3rd option to 2 of the best players in the league to win anything.

    So during his playing days I consider his impact on winning to be similar to LMA. I donít think he would have more impact then he did then, playing C today.

    I bet if you sub in LMA to the heat they win the same amount of championships.
    And you would lose that bet. LMA was not as good as Bosh bro.

    I really wish Jamie was still around so he can break down LMA for you the way he did for me. LMA was a mid range guy who wasnt the most effecient of big men and was mostly over reated through out his career. His biggest hurdle was his mentality because he was to concenred with other players getting more attention than him, and he would complain if Duncan or Pops pushed him to hard to elevate his game. Because he simply didnt have the work ethic. Duncan would out work him even though he was way older than him. That tells me alot.

    Take a look at LMAs career a little closer. He was a diva. We cant even really compare their mentalities.

    LMA was immature and would let things like Lillard getting more attention bother him. And Before Lillard it was Roy & Oden https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/11/12...lard-received/

    Here's an article about nothing would make Aldridge happy. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/...b1vfjci3rsrzlr

    Here's one where LMA says hes unhappy with the spurs and wants to be traded because he wasn't enjoying himself. https://www.sacurrent.com/ArtSlut/ar...ring-offseason This is after a 67 win season and being eliminated in the 2nd round. What kind of player is not happy on a 67 win team with championship aspirations...

    When Bosh went to the Heat he was willing to sacrifice all his personal accolades to win a ship. He took on a smaller role, he played off the ball, he didn't care if he was seen as the 3rd star. He didn't care if he had to be a spot up shooter on the 3 point line because Lebron dominated the ball. He did whatever was needed to win. He cried one time and it wasnt for attention, or that he was being worked to hard. It was because they lost and failed to reach their goal. That's how committed Bosh was to their cause. There's a huge difference there in mentality even if you don't want to accept that Bosh had the better skill set and ultimately the better career, then maybe this paints a better picture of why LMA was never successful.

    I know exactly where you're getting the comparison from. Its from when LMA was drafted. His player comp before getting drafted was Bosh. But we have both players entire careers to compare since then and Its obvious that LMA didn't have the same impact or skill set as Bosh.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 06-07-2021 at 03:13 PM.

  12. #912
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
    Posts
    30,972
    I cant find the article, but heres 3 posts from different forums where they talk about Aldridge thinking Duncan was crazy for working him out to hard.
    https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=263824
    https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2498759
    https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment..._and_lamarcus/

    He didn't understand what it took to be a champion, didn't have the work ethic, he never worked on his is body, he started shooting 3s one season before he retired. When he was in his prime he was too busy competing with team mates for attention. I mean the guy was a loser lol

  13. #913
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,497
    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    What you're failing to understand when comparing Bosh to a guy like Aldridge was that Bosh could spread the floor. Which is one of the main criteria's for a big man in todays game. Someone like Gobert is a defensive specialist but take a look at the other 5`s you mentioned. Jokic, Embiid, Towns... they can all shoot the ball from range. Bosh could too. He could also run the floor. He could play off the ball, or you could run plays for him. He was very versatile of a big man. He had an all around game that would translate perfectly in todays era.

    And no Bosh was never, ever as skinny as Boucher. Not even close bro. Bosh had a regular frame for a 6`10 guy coming out of college. Most bigs need to add muscle coming out of college. But Boucher is abnormally skinny. He is likely one of the skinniest big men who ever played in the league. The comparisons you make are so exaggerated to prove your point but you're not looking close enough. Bosh`s skill set was different than Aldridge, and Bosh`s body frame was really different than Boucher`s. Neither are really accurate comparisons in the context of what were talking about. When looking at a big men and trying to determine if he can play in todays era you really have to look at their skill set, that's ultimately what determines it. Not really the body type as I`ve see guys as small as 6`5 playing center in todays game.
    Hold up. I never said bosh wouldnít be able to play in the league. Infact I said he would be a 20&10 guy still.

    I didnít even bring up towns, but he is a great example. With all his stats and floor spreading - what has he been able to lead his team to?
    That being said - in the 90ís (also not the comparison I made but Iíll roll with it), KAT is playing PF and he would be viewed as one of the most impactful players in the league.

    You cannot ride a 5 these days. Bosh was not Jokic.

  14. #914
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,497
    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    What if Bosh didn't waste his prime years on the raptors who surrounded him with average talent like Primo pasta and sauce Bargnani, or Ball boy Hedo, or Jose Tobleron, etc etc.
    What if Boshs career wasn't shortened and ended up winning another title by joining another contender
    Or what if Garnet never won a ship by joining a super team, and his career was shortened
    Or how about Webber who never did win a ship, but was riddled with injuries in the 2nd half of his career and still made the HOF

    we can play the what if game all we want, but it goes both ways. what do what ifs prove is what Im asking you.
    Iím not proving anything, just asking a question. Mostly trying to change the subject because Iím not convinced. I think you guys are forgetting the frustration of smitch feeding bosh in the post in late game situations. Bosh did a lot of things well, but he was not amazing. Awkward AF and he never looked comfortable until he joined the heat as a 3rd option.

    But I thought we already established that prime bosh was when he started shooting 3ís? He didnít do much of that in Toronto (probably because he cannot create his own shot).

    I personally did not enjoy the bosh era at all. It felt hopeless.

  15. #915
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,497
    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    exactly my point all along. Making that comparison is just lazy. Both players are retired, they have a full body of work that we can look back on to compare. If Chong even took 5 minutes to look at the difference in their playing style he would immediately see the difference. But in his eyes Bosh had the same skill set as LMA with a Chris Boucher frame. Couldn't be more off if he tried really.

    The 2nd bolded part is spot on. Thats exactly what I think too.
    Never said he had the same skill set as LMA, or that he spent his career being skinny.

    Iíve been super clear about my statement. He would have a similar impact as LMA did. Basically make him a 3rd option and he will flourish. Make him the 1st option and youíre battling for .500
    Or similar impact to what towns is today.

Page 61 of 93 FirstFirst ... 1151596061626371 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •