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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    nah Jokic makes everyone better. Murray just takes advantage of that.
    Jokic has been on the bench while the comeback all started with Murray on the field. 😉

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    I have a gut feeling that Kawhi was not totally healthy and the rigors of the playoffs took a toll on his body in game 7 especially in the 2nd half of that game. That was un-Kawhi like for him to not fully perform at the expected highest level when it mattered most. I derived to that conclusion because his defense was abysmal, lateral movement was off and his oft-injured knee could be the reason.

    Toronto’s regular season program really helped him prepare his body during the post-season. I think the Clippers took the shorter route in the regular season, trying to keep up with the Lakers in the standings, having to avoid their match up until the WCF.

    Paul George’s ever reliable prior post-season duds didn’t help their cause. I was not totally impress of Doc Rivers, his in-game adjustments were non-existent.

    Moving forward, the uncertainty in Clippers land are more obvious this coming offseason with few current players possibly not coming back and the biggest elephant in the room which is the health of Kawhi.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    He just choked. Kawhi did whatever he wanted. He cancelled practice whenever he felt like it, took games off etc. Kawhi isn't a leader. He's just a hired gun. The Clippers need a leader. Rivers ain't it.

    Same thing happened in G6 against the Warriors but he got bailed out by Raptors roster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    It’s a matter of opinion. Some may say, we got the chip because of the injuries of KD and Klay. However they may not even reached that point if not for Kawhi’s “clutch” game winning 4 bouncer shot in G6 against the Sixers. They could still be the perennial playoff choker of the NBA. His defense against Giannis elevated his star power. He brought some “calm and winning culture” to the Raptors that Lowry, Serge and Marc didn’t have after being down 0-1 against the Magic and 0-2 against the Bucks.

    I thought, the frequency of him holding an ice pack on his knee while he was on the bench during the regular season as a Clipper and in the post season was more telling that he is hobbled and was walking on one leg in game 7. But yet that’s just my 2 cents, I could be totally wrong lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    He's a great player but he's not a guy you can use like a swiss army knife like a Lebron. The Raptors needed Kawhi as much as Kawhi needed the Raptors. The Spurs and the Raptors had strong leadership and good coaching. The Clippers don't have that. That weakness is further exacerbated by the fact that the Clippers don't have a single playmaker on their team. They needed a guy to help them create easy buckets and control the pace while they were up by double digits. Point guard 101 stuff.

    Clippers have the most iso dominant roster in recent NBA history. Kawhi, PG, Lou and Harrell have historically had the highest iso usage possessions. That's fine. You don't have to run a complex offense when you have so many efficient scorers but without a traditional playmaker to change things up, you just end up taking turns isoing. So many of their collapses could have been prevented with smarter clock management and getting guys easy buckets.

    I mean even if he is injured, he made a lot of uncharacteristic mental errors in that series. I think when we witness greatness, we sometimes forget that it was a team effort. Maybe he needs Pop and Nurse to tell him he is ****ing up.

    I don't buy that Kawhi changed the culture.By all accounts, Kawhi is an arrogant selfish *******. I think the culture **** is a media narrative that was pushed to avoid any real basketball analysis. Similar thing happened with all the braindead Casey apologists saying that Casey changed the culture, even though the Raptors were an absolute dumpster fire until Masai and Nurse got here.

    We didn't really choke. Look up Lowry's elimination numbers in the playoffs or his numbers during crunch time, they're fantastic. Casey was trash and our talent in previous years wasn't great. Demar was also vastly overrated. It was just the perfect storm. Honestly, replace Casey and/or Demar in any of the years and we would have done much better.
    Wow you covered a lot of stuff there dude...though I agree with most of your bulletpoints, a couple of things that we can agree to disagree is that, he is definitely not a choker but his poor performance in game 7 could be due to his deteriorating knee condition. Yet why I have no M.D. at the end of my name to even stupidly derived to that conclusion .

    I am with you though, it’s only Kellerman talk to say that he is better than Kobe, so it’s moot to even compare him to Lebron.

    He is definitely a tier below MJ, Bron and Kobe in that order.
    Giannis and Oladipo 2021 Movement

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenfidish View Post
    Jokic has been on the bench while the comeback all started with Murray on the field. 😉
    lmfao what are you on about. 6 of their 9 field goals in the third was either assisted by Jokic or scored by him.

    Jokic sat 3 times.

    He sat to start the second. Game was 21-29. When he came back, game was 36-41.
    Second time near the end of the second with 34 seconds left. Game was 48-58. When he came back, game was 48-59.
    Then he sat to start the fourth. Game was 78-82. Jokic comes back when it is 85-86.

    Murray totally started the come back with Jokic on the bench.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    Wow you covered a lot of stuff there dude...though I agree with most of your bulletpoints, a couple of things that we can agree to disagree is that, he is definitely not a choker but his poor performance in game 7 could be due to his deteriorating knee condition. Yet why I have no M.D. at the end of my name to even stupidly derived to that conclusion .

    I am with you though, it’s only Kellerman talk to say that he is better than Kobe, so it’s moot to even compare him to Lebron.

    He is definitely a tier below MJ, Bron and Kobe in that order.
    He's not a chronic choker but he def choked. It happens. MJ, Bron, Kobe etc have all choked. I just think its lame to give him a pass cause of his knee when that excuse would never fly with any other superstar. I also it is lame he threw his coach and teammates under the bus but whatever.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    He's not a chronic choker but he def choked. It happens. MJ, Bron, Kobe etc have all choked. I just think its lame to give him a pass cause of his knee when that excuse would never fly with any other superstar. I also it is lame he threw his coach and teammates under the bus but whatever.
    You sounded like a woman still scorned, lmao. I agree though he was no Cyborg that people thought he was “PRIOR” to game 7 against the Nugs.

    But I have no doubt that Nurse and Masai would welcome him with open arms if for some out of this world reason he comes back and misses the well renowned Raptors Physiotherapist Ms. Amanda Joaquim and her magical team who were instrumental in Kawhi’s career resurrection post Spurs era.

    I would as well, in deep gratitude and forever grateful that he was instrumental in giving this franchise their one and only chip and as a ever loyal Raptors fan the ultimate happiness. My sentimental side just came out hahahaha.

    Go Raptors !
    Last edited by Raps Insider 12; 09-21-2020 at 11:04 AM.

  6. #336
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    It would be such classic clippers if they traded 7 draft picks for George who’s career falls off a cliff, and then kawhi leaves in a couple years in FA.

    It’s what I expect from that franchise at this point.

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    You sounded like a woman still scorned, lmao. I agree though he was no Cyborg that people thought he was “PRIOR” to game 7 against the Nugs.

    But I have no doubt that Nurse and Masai would welcome him with open arms if for some out of this world reason he comes back and misses the well renowned Raptors Physiotherapist Ms. Amanda Joaquim and her magical team who were instrumental in Kawhi’s career resurrection post Spurs era.

    I would as well, in deep gratitude and forever grateful that he was instrumental in giving this franchise their one and only chip and as a ever loyal Raptors fan the ultimate happiness. My sentimental side just came out hahahaha.

    Go Raptors !
    meh I just don't buy into any of these narratives. Jordan is the only player where his career actually fits the mythos surrounding him.

    ofc Masai and Nurse would welcome him back. Even the Spurs would too, despite Kawhi ghosting Pop after Pop went out to see him, even though his wife passed. But people are literally making up **** pandering to him just because Kawhi won us a championship. Toronto media held back negative stories about him until Kawhi got bounced. ***** pathetic.

    I'm not that bitter about Kawhi leaving. It is disappointing but I expected it and don't really care. I'm more bitter about not seeing a Kawhi vs Lebron showdown but whatever.
    Last edited by ecart; 09-21-2020 at 02:31 PM.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    It would be such classic clippers if they traded 7 draft picks for George who’s career falls off a cliff, and then kawhi leaves in a couple years in FA.

    It’s what I expect from that franchise at this point.
    LeGM > BotGM

    I expect them to double down and pander to Kawhi. Well PG is still a good player, he hasn't declined yet. PG has always played like **** in elimination games, not sure what you expect from him. But it is a pivotal moment for them. They're so close to being like Brooklyn.

    I don't think they'll leave though. Both of them wanted to be in Cali and have the red carpet treatment. Lebron wouldn't be cool with some of the **** Kawhi is pulling. Same with the Warriors. I guess they could bolt to Sac.

    Ballmer is a good owner. Hopefully he surrounds himself with better people. He should hire Leiweke. If they hire a lame duck coach. They're done.

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    meh Danny Green almost carried the Spurs to a championship. He never shot that well ever again.
    Based off skillset alone, Murray does a whole lot more than Green whos a catch and shoot guy and litterally cant do a lick more of anything on offense. Defence is a different story. Green was a pretty solid and effecient 3&D guy with the spurs in his prime.

    Hard to compare, but Murray is currently option 1b if not 1a along with Jokic. And to be in the WCFs with him as a main option is impressive.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    You sounded like a woman still scorned, lmao. I agree though he was no Cyborg that people thought he was “PRIOR” to game 7 against the Nugs.

    But I have no doubt that Nurse and Masai would welcome him with open arms if for some out of this world reason he comes back and misses the well renowned Raptors Physiotherapist Ms. Amanda Joaquim and her magical team who were instrumental in Kawhi’s career resurrection post Spurs era.

    I would as well, in deep gratitude and forever grateful that he was instrumental in giving this franchise their one and only chip and as a ever loyal Raptors fan the ultimate happiness. My sentimental side just came out hahahaha.

    Go Raptors !
    Love kawhi but that leg is a concern. Even when we won the ship last year he was showing signs that the leg was bothering him.. load management or not theres always a chance hes not 100 percent. I personally dont think he has more than 2 maybe 3 prime years left. Hes not gonna have the longevity that lebron or even lowry has

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenfidish View Post
    PG is still the better player between both hands down. Siakam has still more to prove imo. George can hit a shot naturally. When he shoots it looks good and you can feel it’s not shaky. When Siakam shoots my heart is racing and the shot looks weird and a hell Mary type. I’m not sure if you guys know what I’m saying. Add in all pascal has is the spin move and i would have done that deal has down “ if” we retained OG.

    Lowry/Fred
    Kawai/Thomas
    PG/Powell
    OG
    Ibaka/gasol/Boucher

    All day long and everyday of this planet lol
    Pg13 was top 3 in MVP voting last year. Im convinced that team needed more time to gel and alot of blame lands right on Doc Rivers.

    Also I dont think Lou Will, Trez, & Pat Bev meshed as well with Kawhi, PG13, and Morris as they hoped.. on paper they looked great but they just didnt gel and I put that on the coach. Every player mentioned is a really good to great piece. It wasnt the talent that was the problem. Imo it was the system and culture.

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Based off skillset alone, Murray does a whole lot more than Green whos a catch and shoot guy and litterally cant do a lick more of anything on offense. Defence is a different story. Green was a pretty solid and effecient 3&D guy with the spurs in his prime.

    Hard to compare, but Murray is currently option 1b if not 1a along with Jokic. And to be in the WCFs with him as a main option is impressive.
    Not saying they're the same. Just the player off the top of my head who randomly got hot in the playoffs one season and never reached that level again. Green was in FMVP talks that year. I just think Murray is on a hot streak. I'm skeptical he will ever play this well again. He is shooting better than Curry's best season atm. But who knows maybe he'll prove me wrong.
    Last edited by ecart; 09-21-2020 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Not saying they're the same. Just the player off the top of my head who randomly got hot in the playoffs one season and never reached that level again. Green was in FMVP talks that year. I just think Murray is on a hot streak. I'm skeptical he will ever play this well again. He is shooting better than Curry's best season atm. But who knows maybe he'll prove me wrong.
    The fact that hes matching or beating Currys best season in the loffs is impressive. Were talking about a guy who people beleive is the best shooter or will go down as one of the best shooters of all time. So yeah its probable that Murray doesnt sustain this but the fact that hes doing it when it counts means so much more than just a hot streak through reg season games.

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Love kawhi but that leg is a concern. Even when we won the ship last year he was showing signs that the leg was bothering him.. load management or not theres always a chance hes not 100 percent. I personally dont think he has more than 2 maybe 3 prime years left. Hes not gonna have the longevity that lebron or even lowry has
    Imagine he listened to the spurs and came back early... the dude is dealing with this same injury every year. He made the right call.

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    The fact that hes matching or beating Currys best season in the loffs is impressive. Were talking about a guy who people beleive is the best shooter or will go down as one of the best shooters of all time. So yeah its probable that Murray doesnt sustain this but the fact that hes doing it when it counts means so much more than just a hot streak through reg season games.
    The shooting probably isn’t sustainable, but the creating is. He’s creating plenty of good shots for himself. So maybe he shoots a lower percentage, but he will be a regular 20 point guy.

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