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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    In a 1 on 1 matchup it's easily Westbrook > Lowry. When it comes to team basketball, running an offence, managing yourself and others on D then it's easily Lowry.

    I think something that gets overlooked even by Raptor fans is just how much Lowry adapted his game since he got here. He went through so many changes in his game and never fought any of them. First he was too passive, then too assertive, then he started taking bad shots, the playoff struggles, then he became a reliable 1A and after only 1 or 2 years was asked to give up the reins and focus way more on becoming a floor general. He's also officially shaken his post season demons. He's taken every change in stride and has continuously gotten better. Off the top of my head it's hard to think of a player who went through more changes than Lowry did over the past decade or so.
    And he was considered I coachable early in his career. I agree it’s insane.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I mean in a vacuum, Westbrook is better than Lowry, it's not even an argument. If we're strictly comparing basketball skills and physical attributes, it's not even close. But basketball isn't played in a vacuum. Lowry's intangibles make him a more effective player than Westbrook.

    How did they make a mistake dumping CP3? Harden hated CP3. lol what do you want them to do?

    And honestly, people gotta stop using "not winning a chip" as a condemnation of a player's skill and talent. We have this weird habit of mythologizing winners and losers in this stupid dichotomy, where winners are literal gods and losers suffer from a multitude of moral foibles.
    I do agree with you in a sense about winning championships. Karl Malone, Gary Payton and Charles Barkley are not worthless bums. However, because one single player influences the game so much, it is completely understandable. You certainly don't hear the same type of chatter about championships in other leagues like you do in basketball.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I do agree with you in a sense about winning championships. Karl Malone, Gary Payton and Charles Barkley are not worthless bums.
    I mean people mythologize winners in any sport. I don't think it is unique to the NBA. There's a great deal of survivorship bias in these type of discussions. I just take issue with the idea that someone either is or isn't a "winner". I think it is completely nonsensical.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    However, because one single player influences the game so much, it is completely understandable. You certainly don't hear the same type of chatter about championships in other leagues like you do in basketball.
    Sure, but the other team has players too. At that level between two stars, it is essentially a zero sum game. The supporting cast, coaching, management and even dumb luck can make all the difference. Some player's legacies are literally decided by a handful of baskets, coaching mistakes and/or timely/untimely injuries. People wildly overstate the talent difference between winners and losers. I mean think about Kawhi's shot against Philly. If that ball bounced any other way, every single player on that team would have a drastically different narrative. It doesn't make sense to me to use such a temperamental criteria to characterize or evaluate players.
    Last edited by ecart; 07-13-2020 at 04:55 PM.

  4. #214
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    The reason I think we see it more so in basketball is because 1 dominant player can carry the team, or especially 2 dominant players. So it’s expected that if you’re the best in the league you can carry your team to a championship.

  5. #215
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    Basketball isn't played in a vacuum. Yes, dominant players have an out-sized impact in basketball, but the other team has dominant players as well. The vast majority of playoff series are rarely decided by these star vs star interactions since they're essentially zero sum games. People just frame it this way because it makes for better story telling. The Celtics' and the Lakers' championships weren't decided by Bird vs Magic.

    Besides, none of this **** actually matters. If it did, there wouldn't be so much revisionist history surronding Jordan.
    Last edited by ecart; 07-15-2020 at 02:19 PM.

  6. 07-21-2020, 06:25 AM

  7. 07-21-2020, 04:21 PM

  8. #216
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    Would love to see Masai sign Jeliko Obradovi as an assistant coach this offseason. Rumors he will be coaching the spurs when pop retires, but if hammond gets the promotion and no one wants to hand him a HC position then I think toronto might be the best spot for him. We have had a lot of our assistants get hired into promotions over the last couple years. And Nurse would listen to him and his ideas. Masai has shown a good level of interest and trust in the best overseas coaches.

  9. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Would love to see Masai sign Jeliko Obradovi as an assistant coach this offseason. Rumors he will be coaching the spurs when pop retires, but if hammond gets the promotion and no one wants to hand him a HC position then I think toronto might be the best spot for him. We have had a lot of our assistants get hired into promotions over the last couple years. And Nurse would listen to him and his ideas. Masai has shown a good level of interest and trust in the best overseas coaches.
    I would say it's more up to Nurse. Adrian Griffin has been linked to the Bulls. If he takes the lead coaching job in Chicago, then I can see the Raptors showing interest.

    Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  10. #218
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    Raptors first game is tomorrow. The NBA as expected has done a great job with the entire process of restarting the season. I'm confident they will finish this campaign with a champion. The games look great on TV as well.

    Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  11. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    Raptors first game is tomorrow. The NBA as expected has done a great job with the entire process of restarting the season. I'm confident they will finish this campaign with a champion. The games look great on TV as well.

    Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
    Yeah probably the best run league right now after the NHL. The ONLY reason I give the NHL the nod over the NBA is because of how they handled the China incident. China is locking up Muslim people in death camps and strong arming hongkong violently. They’re a communist dictatorship, slowly expanding and buying the rest of the world. I wish they took a stand, but $$$.

  12. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Yeah probably the best run league right now after the NHL. The ONLY reason I give the NHL the nod over the NBA is because of how they handled the China incident. China is locking up Muslim people in death camps and strong arming hongkong violently. They’re a communist dictatorship, slowly expanding and buying the rest of the world. I wish they took a stand, but $$$.
    lol the NHL that is against players making social and political statements and trying hard af to expand into China? Wdym slowly expanding? Almost every country is heavily reliant on China. They already moved in, suitcase and all.

  13. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    lol the NHL that is against players making social and political statements and trying hard af to expand into China? Wdym slowly expanding? Almost every country is heavily reliant on China. They already moved in, suitcase and all.
    And I hate it.

  14. #222
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    Lakers players predicted they’ll be facing the raptors in the finals recently.

  15. #223
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    Simmons is out. Celtics and Bucks, the only competition left in the East.

  16. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Simmons is out. Celtics and Bucks, the only competition left in the East.
    Does anybody really consider the Celtics a serious threat? They aren’t even registering on my radar, but I suppose they have the weapons to surprise us in a series.

  17. #225
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    They have been a problem all season. Definitely a team to worry about.

    Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

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