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  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Guy View Post
    Respectfully disagree. We can nit pick particular stats where he was god-awful in one postseason, but he still defends, rebounds and hustles. He's also shown he can be a scoring option when not the primary one. He's also shown significant growth every season he's been in the league so far. Those are all significant factors in his trade value. Plus, not all GMs watch our team as closely as we do, I mean, if they did, we'd have never unloaded Bargnani. His stock is not as high as it could be given the amount of money on his contract, and he's not the player we all wish he was (yet), but to say his stock as at an all-time low is a bit extreme.
    Its not nit picking. Its a historically bad shooting performance, ESPN did a piece on.

    The bolded is the point.

    All GMs do is evaluate talent. All day, everyday. They watch more tape on every team than any fan does. You think you know more about Siakams game than 29 other GMs in the league? trust me you dont, they have so many analytical tools that you and I would have to sit down and dissect to even wrap our heads around or begin to understand. GM's have a team of people scouting 24/7.

    Bargnani was a bust. No on is comparing Siakam to Bargnani, I was comparing him to Bosh, not Bargnani that would just be insulting.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-24-2020 at 12:37 PM.

  2. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Youíre right, but I agree with what heís saying in that a player who can bring the ball up the court and play a bit of PG is positioned better to lead a team than a PF that needs to get into his spot before touching the ball.
    If siakam was 22 I would have much more hope in him being able to reach that level. I donít think he can at this point, but he is pretty much a perfect pippin.
    bingo... Thats what Ive been saying all along. Not that we need to trade him. I dont want to trade him. I want him to be our 2nd option which is what he technically was when we wont the ship, so we know he can shine in that role. If we get Giannis, with Siakam as our number 2 I think that would be friggen amazing.

  3. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Possible more than kawhi considering age/contract/health.
    Siakam does not have more trade value than Kawhi. Even considering every factor, Leonard is still a top 5 player in the league.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I think siakam would still have a ton of trade value. As much as just about anyone in the league. More than anyone else on the roster for sure, more than prime derozan, more than oladipo, more than PG, more than 99% of the league.
    So you think Siakam has as much trade value as Giannis? Leonard? Jokic? Davis? Curry? Embiid? Harden? etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Yeah I still stand my my statement.
    You can stand by it, but with all due respect, youre wrong bro. His Value is no where near those guys, and I could add more names to the list but I think you get the point. I would say Siakams value would be on par with Beals and thats just my opinion but would you say thats an accurate comparison in terms of value? similar age, similar contracts etc.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-24-2020 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Siakam still has a ton of value in the league. Teams don't care if he is a "true" no.1 option or not. That's fan talk. His value is dictated solely by the market and the NBA is still in a dire need of lengthy bigs that can guard the perimeter, switch 1-5, handle the ball and has a decent offensive skillset.

    The only big that can do all this better than Siakam right now is Anthony Davis (and Giannis if you consider him a big).
    Of course he has value, Im just saying its not at its highest right now because a) his extention is kicking in and b) he just had a piss poor outing in the playoffs. That doesn't mean he has no value, of course he does. I wouldnt even want to trade him. The hope is that were able to land a guy like Giannis where Siakam can revert back to be that 2nd option where there was way less defensive focus on him and he was able to play off ball and really compliment Kawhi which I think he did beautifully.

  5. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I donít think the trade value of players swings as wildly as you suggest (barring injury).
    Siakam would have been at peak value after the regular season, but now he is a trade-bum?

    I just donít agree. Off the top of my head i can think of 1 for 1 star trades that would be accepted for siakam in the blink of an eye.
    PG, Westbrook, oladipo or Turner (possibly both tbh), shai, Green...

    There might be about 10-15 players with more trade value than siakam in the entire league, and theyíre pretty much all 1Aís.
    exactly so how could his value be on par with every ones?

    when did I say hes a trade bum... also wth does that even mean? lol

    my statement was, "I never suggested trading Siakam, especially not when his value is at its lowest" meaning he just had a piss poor performance to the 2nd half of the season and it carried through to the post season where he had a historically terrible shooting performance. Also his extension kicks for next season, so yeah his value isnt at its highest right now. That doesn't mean he doesn't have value... of course he has value he is young and under contract for another 4 years, and is a mip, + an NBA Champion. Why wouldn't he have value?

  6. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I didn't miss the point at all. I'm not responding to your original post about Siakam. I posted an opinion about Bosh and people responded.

    Like I said, if you want to argue that Bosh didn't show enough in Toronto to warrant being a no.1 option, that's fair. But the skillset and the way he was used by Spo in Miami, indicates to me that we didn't fully realize or utilize his skillset efficiently.

    You had a guy that broke how NBA teams played as a role player, imagine if a front office or a coach realized that several years earlier. In a situation where teams are zigging and you have a bonafide zag, that is enough of a competitive advantage to help you win a championship.
    Boom. key word there being role player. I mean I would say he was more than a role player, more like a 3rd option and he was fantastic in that role. Do you think Bosh could have lead Miami to a ship with no Wade or Bron? because that all there were saying here, Bosh wasn't cut out to be the guy to lead you there, comparatively neither is Siakam.

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Siakam does not have more trade value than Kawhi. Even considering every factor, Leonard is still a top 5 player in the league.



    So you think Siakam has as much trade value as Giannis? Leonard? Jokic? Davis? Curry? Embiid? Harden? etc etc



    You can stand by it, but with all due respect, youre wrong bro. His Value is no where near those guys, and I could add more names to the list but I think you get the point. I would say Siakams value would be on par with Beals and thats just my opinion but would you say thats an accurate comparison in terms of value? similar age, similar contracts etc.
    You must have missed the post where I said there are about 10 players with more value than siakam.
    99%.
    I think he has more value than embiid.

    Iíd say Beal is a decent comparison. Itís one I had in mind as well. Brings more offensively, less defensively. Siakam gets a small boost for proving he can be a #2 on a championship team, but still theyíre close.

    Hereís a good one - siakam has more value than simmonds.
    Last edited by ChongInc.; 10-24-2020 at 01:18 PM.

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    exactly so how could his value be on par with every ones?

    when did I say hes a trade bum... also wth does that even mean? lol

    my statement was, "I never suggested trading Siakam, especially not when his value is at its lowest" meaning he just had a piss poor performance to the 2nd half of the season and it carried through to the post season where he had a historically terrible shooting performance. Also his extension kicks for next season, so yeah his value isnt at its highest right now. That doesn't mean he doesn't have value... of course he has value he is young and under contract for another 4 years, and is a mip, + an NBA Champion. Why wouldn't he have value?
    I didnít say he is on par with the best plyers in the league. You bolded what I said, and then put words in my mouth lol.

  9. #414
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    Whats the most money we able to give FVV in year 1?

    I think if its $55 mil over 2 years he resigns. Give him a 1 + 1 deal

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Whats the most money we able to give FVV in year 1?

    I think if its $55 mil over 2 years he resigns. Give him a 1 + 1 deal
    "Now, that doesnít mean that the Raptors will only be willing to offer a one-year contract to VanVleet. The expectation is that Toronto will still be able to make a competitive offer in the four-year, $80MM range for the starting guard. Structuring the deal so that it declines in value in year two before increasing again for the remaining years would create a small amount of added flexibility for the Raptors in 2021 as well."

    https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/10/...o-raptors.html

    This was a good break down. Basically we need the cap space for 2021. What this article suggests is that we can do a few things. 1. offer a 4 year 80 mill contract. or 2. We could essentially pay him more however the deal would be structured so that it would pay less in 2021 maintaining the cap flex and then going up in value the following years making it a back loaded contract. To my understanding anything more than 20 mill in that specific 2021 would take us out of the running for Giannis. So really we could just structure the deal so that Freddy gets his money on the deal, only its back-loaded.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-24-2020 at 03:13 PM.

  11. #416
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    The two guys that Raptors really don't want to trade right now are 26yr old Siakam and 23 yr old Anunoby (and he just turned 23 this summer, still crazy young). That's the foundation to build around for years to come IMO. Fred VV at 26 is a legitimate 3rd piece there. It is time to look forward on how to build around those 3 IMO.

    I'd be curious what type of trade value Powell and Lowry have. This might be an alright year to step back a bit?

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    "Now, that doesnít mean that the Raptors will only be willing to offer a one-year contract to VanVleet. The expectation is that Toronto will still be able to make a competitive offer in the four-year, $80MM range for the starting guard. Structuring the deal so that it declines in value in year two before increasing again for the remaining years would create a small amount of added flexibility for the Raptors in 2021 as well."

    https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/10/...o-raptors.html

    This was a good break down. Basically we need the cap space for 2021. What this article suggests is that we can do a few things. 1. offer a 4 year 80 mill contract. or 2. We could essentially pay him more however the deal would be structured so that it would pay less in 2021 maintaining the cap flex and then going up in value the following years making it a back loaded contract. To my understanding anything more than 20 mill in that specific 2021 would take us out of the running for Giannis. So really we could just structure the deal so that Freddy gets his money on the deal, only its back-loaded.
    I am hoping a 2 year deal would work structured as a 1 + 1.

    If he opts in, we could probably trade him with a pick given it would be 1 year left. If he opts out, that gives us our capspace.

  13. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I didnít say he is on par with the best plyers in the league. You bolded what I said, and then put words in my mouth lol.
    You said his trade value is as good as anyones in the league bro, how did I put words in your mouth?

    Maybe you just had an epiphany lol but my bad if i misunderstood
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-24-2020 at 07:39 PM.

  14. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    You must have missed the post where I said there are about 10 players with more value than siakam.
    99%.
    I think he has more value than embiid.

    Iíd say Beal is a decent comparison. Itís one I had in mind as well. Brings more offensively, less defensively. Siakam gets a small boost for proving he can be a #2 on a championship team, but still theyíre close.

    Hereís a good one - siakam has more value than simmonds.
    I agree id give the edge to siakam because hes a two way player and a proven winner like you said.

    Def more value than simmons I agree 100

  15. #420
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    But then if you re sign FVV there is still Ibaka and or Gasol...which are you gonna choose?

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