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  1. #376
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    Maybe you can name a team that won a ship in the modern era with a player like bosh as the best player on the court.

  2. #377
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    That's irrelevant. Winning a championship isn't a prerequisite for being a no.1 option.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    No, but I can play the “he cannot create his own offence” card. Do you even remember dumping it off to bosh and hoping he would get fouled?

    If any PF was going to win a ship as a #1 option it would have been KG and he couldn’t get close.
    Bosh was like a poor mans KG.
    Those were poor coaching decisions. Not an actual weakness in his game. He played entirely different under Spo. There's a reason none of our Bosh era head coaches have gotten hired anywhere since then, not even as an assistant coach.

    The only reason KG didn't get close was because the front office was dog **** and his coaches were garbage, not because his game wasn't worthy of being a no.1 option. Cmon now.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    That's irrelevant. Winning a championship isn't a prerequisite for being a no.1 option.
    No, but we are talking about winning a championship, and how you cannot win one with siakam (or bosh) as your best player/#1 option.

    I never suggested that bosh wasn’t our #1 option when he was here. He obviously was, and that’s why we couldn’t succeed in the playoffs while he was here.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Those were poor coaching decisions. Not an actual weakness in his game. He played entirely different under Spo. There's a reason none of our Bosh era head coaches have gotten hired anywhere since then, not even as an assistant coach.

    The only reason KG didn't get close was because the front office was dog **** and his coaches were garbage, not because his game wasn't worthy of being a no.1 option. Cmon now.
    Yeah any player plays different when they become the #3 option. He was always going to be a great robin. Bosh would have been perfect with Vince.

    Triano was an assistant for a long time after and just recently retired.
    KG had some good teams around him at times in minni.

    K so should we look at Anthony Davis’ playoff record before LeBron? Kevin Love? KAT? Aldridge without a #1 guard? How far would Denver get without Murray?

    I can’t think of a single big who can lead their team to a ship as the #1 option these days.
    Prime Howard did about as good as any big I can remember in getting to the finals. Even he had jammer Nelson, turkgolu, rishard Lewis. Howard wasn’t creating the offence on that team.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    no.1 option doesn't mean you need to literally win a championship as the top dog rofl.



    He was a black hole because of the coaching. He was infinitely more versatile offensively and defensively with the Heat even as he took a back seat. Look at how long it took for Kevin Love to adjust his playstyle.

    Look at everything Bosh was able to accomplish in just one off-season. His faceup game, his handling, best pick and roll defence in the league etc. There was so much **** that he was capable of doing, our coaching staff just wasn't good enough to recognize it.

    It's not really his fault our offensive identity during that era was Calderon dribbling out half the shot clock and Bosh posting up the remaining seconds.
    yeah dont remind me. cringe

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    James Harden is undeniably a bonafide no.1 option and he has never won a championship. Winning a championship is not a prerequisite for being a no.1 option.
    He also ran in the a dynasty called the Warriors. thats not a good example because Harden got his team to the conference finals twice and was eliminated by the warriors both in 2015 and 2018. Infact if you watched the 2018 playoffs you would remember the Rockets were on the verge of beating the Warriors before Chris Paul got injured.

    Even then, Harden lead his teams to two conference finals in a tougher Western Conference. Bosh never got out the first round with the Raptors. Albeit he did have a terrible roster around him with suspect coaching but this is why I say its a bad comparison.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-22-2020 at 11:42 AM.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    No, but I can play the “he cannot create his own offence” card. Do you even remember dumping it off to bosh and hoping he would get fouled?

    If any PF was going to win a ship as a #1 option it would have been KG and he couldn’t get close.
    Bosh was like a poor mans KG.
    Tim Duncan says hello

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    You guys wish Siakam was as good as Bosh lol. If Siakam was as good as Bosh, we would be in the Finals.

    Bosh was the prototypical big. He is the reason these perimeter face up bigs that can switch on anything are essential right now. If Bosh was drafted by a competent front office with a decent coaching staff, this meta would have been ushered into the NBA even quicker. Instead we got Sam Mitchell, who only got the job from riding KG's coat tails and Bryan Colangelo, who got the job because of nepotism. It's actually so ****ing sad how behind we were. Even at the time, the league was slowly shifting away from post-ups yet our entire coaching/development process heavily emphasized that.

    If you want to make the argument that how Bosh actually played in Toronto was meh, then I am inclined to agree. But due to how he played when he immediately joined the Heat, I think he left a lot on the table.
    you missed the point here. The point was if Siakam isnt even as good as Bosh is he worth building around? We can debate Bosh being better than Siakam but who cares about that, what Im trying to point out is that maybe Siakam isnt the guy we want to move forward with as our corner stone.

    Now with respect to Bosh, I think it was apparent that when his usage went down he became more valuable to a contender. With Lebron and Wade he had the luxury of having two guys command the majority of the apposing teams defensive attention. In comparison Siakam also benefited from that when we had Kawhi. He played off the ball beautifully and thrived in that role as a 2nd, or 3rd option along with Lowry. That's what Im getting at here. Neither Bosh or Siakam are suitable to be that number one guy but both would be ideal complimentary pieces to true super stars.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Im ready for a rebuild. Im not sure how many years Lowry has left and we all inow this team goes as far as Lowry takes them. Look no further than the game when Lowry fouled out and the team fell apart vs the Celtics in the 2nd round. They were completly lost with out him.

    Also I dont see Siakam as a first option on a contender. Having him as your best player would be similar to the Bosh lead teams... hes good but he aint taking you very far as the main piece. Now I know hes better than Bosh but you know what Im saying.
    The part where I said, " I know hes better than Bosh" I jumped the gun there. My point was that if we continue to move forward building around Siakam the results will be very similar to those Bosh lead teams. which is 1st round exits, 2nd round exits at best. Even if Bosh is better, the fact remains neither of these guys are built to be your super star level talent to be a corner stone.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    No, but we are talking about winning a championship, and how you cannot win one with siakam (or bosh) as your best player/#1 option.
    Exactly.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Yeah any player plays different when they become the #3 option. He was always going to be a great robin. Bosh would have been perfect with Vince.

    Triano was an assistant for a long time after and just recently retired.
    KG had some good teams around him at times in minni.

    K so should we look at Anthony Davis’ playoff record before LeBron? Kevin Love? KAT? Aldridge without a #1 guard? How far would Denver get without Murray?

    I can’t think of a single big who can lead their team to a ship as the #1 option these days.
    Prime Howard did about as good as any big I can remember in getting to the finals. Even he had jammer Nelson, turkgolu, rishard Lewis. Howard wasn’t creating the offence on that team.

    The league has changed now, but there was a time when Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Tim Duncan types were e corner stone players. Barkley and Malone just couldn't get passed MJ. No one could in that era, until Jordan played Baseball and Hakeem owned the league for two years until Michael came back for his throne

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    The part where I said, " I know hes better than Bosh" I jumped the gun there. My point was that if we continue to move forward building around Siakam the results will be very similar to those Bosh lead teams. which is 1st round exits, 2nd round exits at best. Even if Bosh is better, the fact remains neither of these guys are built to be your super star level talent to be a corner stone.
    I think Siakam has more of a chance of being a cornerstone guy than Bosh based on him being more of a tweener SF/PF, and how much his skills have morphed over the last three years. That being said, ultimately I don't think he's someone who you commit to building a team around. However, he'd make a 1A secondary player to a superstar. I think Masai has every intention of landing another star to put along Siakam in the next 2-3 years.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Raptor View Post
    I think Siakam has more of a chance of being a cornerstone guy than Bosh based on him being more of a tweener SF/PF, and how much his skills have morphed over the last three years. That being said, ultimately I don't think he's someone who you commit to building a team around. However, he'd make a 1A secondary player to a superstar. I think Masai has every intention of landing another star to put along Siakam in the next 2-3 years.
    1A would make him the first option. 1B would make him the secondary.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    1A would make him the first option. 1B would make him the secondary.
    I think we get what he’s getting at and I agree.
    I’m not at all prepared to let siakam go. The goal is to pair him up with a primary ball handler who can create.

    An underrated factor to siakam is he stays healthy.

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