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  1. #1156
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Meh. Siakam got the max because thatís what 2nd/3rd options on championship teams get paid. Then he made the all-nba team and it bumped the whole contract up a notch.
    That's cope. Raptors FO outbid themselves period. They thought they were being clever by locking him in early.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I see where my miscalculation from earlier was made. Randles EXTENSION which kicks in after this upcoming season is only a few mil less than what siakam will be making.
    Considering heís proven he can shine when the lights are the brightest, and the additional defensive versatility,.. I think the extra few mil is worth it. Itís market.
    "few mill". Siakam will make 7M+ more on average. And before you chime in about the incentives cutting the gap, Siakam and literally every other NBA player has the same incentives.

    It's completely delusional to say it was the market. You think Masai gave him the full max and is fine with him playing like this? Market my ***.
    Last edited by ecart; 09-07-2021 at 05:12 PM.

  2. #1157
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Can someone confirm?
    I just read somewhere that after signing Khem, siakam averaged 25ppg 6apg and 7rpg on 50/34/82.

    I donít know how to navigate these stat websites to confirm.
    Again you're reaching for any angle that will prove your point. First it was Siakam is a top 3 pf, then the narrative changed to Siakam is better than Sabonis and Randle, then the narrative changed to Siakam is more deserving of a max because hes a better defender.

    Siakam is not a top 3 pf, He is in the tier group with Sabonis and Randle but both guys are on better value contracts, and by any metric Siakam hasn't been better than them defensively either. Not to the point that you're trying to make it seem. The stats dont back that up.

    Siakam earned MIP, Randle earned MIP. Siakam made all NBA team, Randle made all NBA team. Siakam lead his team to the playoffs last year and stunk it up, Randle lead his team to the playoffs this year and stunk it up. Randle bested Siakam in almost every statistical category but you lable him as useless and only makes a few mill less than Siakam.

    Every single point you've made so far has been debunked. Surely you must see how you could be coming off as ag a homer. You are so adamant about moving the goal post in every way you can to shine a bright light on a player who simply hasn't been living up to his contract. We get that you like the player, but you can like a player and critique him. That's all that were doing here. Doesn't mean we don't like Pascal or don't see what he brings to the table. Its called being fair and realistic.

    If you are an NBA fan you know that players move around a lot. Hardly any finish their career with the team they started with. So you should be able to remove bias when making these comparisons. I just think you have too much knowledge to resort to rose coloured glasses and being enamored with a guy simply because he wears a raptor jersey. give it up bro. Hes a good player but lets not sell ourselves on things that aren't true.

  3. #1158
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Again you're reaching for any angle that will prove your point. First it was Siakam is a top 3 pf, then the narrative changed to Siakam is better than Sabonis and Randle, then the narrative changed to Siakam is more deserving of a max because hes a better defender.

    Siakam is not a top 3 pf, He is in the tier group with Sabonis and Randle but both guys are on better value contracts, and by any metric Siakam hasn't been better than them defensively either. Not to the point that you're trying to make it seem. The stats dont back that up.

    Siakam earned MIP, Randle earned MIP. Siakam made all NBA team, Randle made all NBA team. Siakam lead his team to the playoffs last year and stunk it up, Randle lead his team to the playoffs this year and stunk it up. Randle bested Siakam in almost every statistical category but you lable him as useless and only makes a few mill less than Siakam.

    Every single point you've made so far has been debunked. Surely you must see how you could be coming off as ag a homer. You are so adamant about moving the goal post in every way you can to shine a bright light on a player who simply hasn't been living up to his contract. We get that you like the player, but you can like a player and critique him. That's all that were doing here. Doesn't mean we don't like Pascal or don't see what he brings to the table. Its called being fair and realistic.

    If you are an NBA fan you know that players move around a lot. Hardly any finish their career with the team they started with. So you should be able to remove bias when making these comparisons. I just think you have too much knowledge to resort to rose coloured glasses and being enamored with a guy simply because he wears a raptor jersey. give it up bro. Hes a good player but lets not sell ourselves on things that aren't true.
    Lol sry I didnít read past the first line here.
    I saw a post somewhere and asked for help to find out if it was true. Nothing was directed at you or towards our disagreement of where to rank siakam among PFís. I already said my bit about that, and I hope to be proven correct by the end of the season. If Iím wrong and randle/sabonis step up and separate themselves from the siakam/randle/sabonis B+ pack - make sure you remind me and I will admit it.

  4. #1159
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Again you're reaching for any angle that will prove your point. First it was Siakam is a top 3 pf, then the narrative changed to Siakam is better than Sabonis and Randle, then the narrative changed to Siakam is more deserving of a max because hes a better defender.

    Siakam is not a top 3 pf, He is in the tier group with Sabonis and Randle but both guys are on better value contracts, and by any metric Siakam hasn't been better than them defensively either. Not to the point that you're trying to make it seem. The stats dont back that up.

    Siakam earned MIP, Randle earned MIP. Siakam made all NBA team, Randle made all NBA team. Siakam lead his team to the playoffs last year and stunk it up, Randle lead his team to the playoffs this year and stunk it up. Randle bested Siakam in almost every statistical category but you lable him as useless and only makes a few mill less than Siakam.

    Every single point you've made so far has been debunked. Surely you must see how you could be coming off as ag a homer. You are so adamant about moving the goal post in every way you can to shine a bright light on a player who simply hasn't been living up to his contract. We get that you like the player, but you can like a player and critique him. That's all that were doing here. Doesn't mean we don't like Pascal or don't see what he brings to the table. Its called being fair and realistic.

    If you are an NBA fan you know that players move around a lot. Hardly any finish their career with the team they started with. So you should be able to remove bias when making these comparisons. I just think you have too much knowledge to resort to rose coloured glasses and being enamored with a guy simply because he wears a raptor jersey. give it up bro. Hes a good player but lets not sell ourselves on things that aren't true.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Lol sry I didnít read past the first line here.
    I saw a post somewhere and asked for help to find out if it was true. Nothing was directed at you or towards our disagreement of where to rank siakam among PFís. I already said my bit about that, and I hope to be proven correct by the end of the season. If Iím wrong and randle/sabonis step up and separate themselves from the siakam/randle/sabonis B+ pack - make sure you remind me and I will admit it.
    Thats pretty coy of you, but I get it why you ignored my other post highlighting that you called Randle useless but he pretty much bested Saikam in every statistical category last year. Its apparent as to why you wouldn't read or respond to it.

    No worries though, I made it easy for you. The bolded is really the point. I like Siakam too, but like all players I critique him with out bias. I think you have a lot of knowledge and have the ability to remove your bias when critiquing players as well. In fact, I know you do. But to each their own.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 09-08-2021 at 02:42 PM.

  5. #1160
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Thats pretty coy of you, but I get it why you ignored my other post highlighting that you called Randle useless but he pretty much bested Saikam in every statistical category last year. Its apparent as to why you wouldn't read or respond to it.

    No worries though, I made it easy for you. The bolded is really the point. I like Siakam too, but like all players I critique him with out bias. I think you have a lot of knowledge and have the ability to remove your bias when critiquing players as well. In fact, I know you do. But to each their own.
    Thanks for simplifying that. Been a hell of a work day today. Could only squeeze out so much poop time today (pun intended).

    Stats stats statsÖ Iím not arguing against the stats from last season and Iíve stated several times why.

    Your arguments have been: Iím not counting all the PFís, the other guys have better stats last season, and theyre getting paid less.

    Iím saying: the stats are close when our team isnít in shambles or siakam is out of shape for whatever reason, siakam has won more than either of those guys (and got paid for his efforts), and siakam is VASTLY more versatile and a better defender overall.

    The stats being as close as they are, I think his vastly better defensive versatility and not having to be hidden on defence tilts the scales towards siakam being the better player overall.

    I donít think what Iím saying is biased. I think it is a well thought out stance that many around the league would share.

    Youíre free to disagree, but I havenít been convinced yet.

    No offence to you - I respect you too - but I think we should drop it and revisit after we have another season (hopefully healthy for all the players we are comping) to look back on and compare results.

    I think sabonis has a better chance to become something special than randle though. I would be totally shocked if randle didnít regress under more normal circumstances. Happy for him though, he cashed in on that covid season.

  6. #1161
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    Just to be clear lol - anything I say beyond this point is just me talking about raptors basketball. I am not trying to call you out 3 days from now when I ask a random question about siakam or for help with sorting statistics.

  7. #1162
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    All good baybay. Lets get back on track.

  8. #1163
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    [Charania] Sources: John Wall, Houston Rockets meet and mutually agree to work together on finding a new home for the five-time All-Star guard. Plan is for Wall to be present at training camp, but not play in Rockets games this season.
    eagles get ****ed. ThEy WoUlD nEvEr SiT a 40M+ pOiNt GuArD. uNpReCeDaTeD. nEvEr In NbA hIsToRy.

  9. #1164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    eagles get ****ed. ThEy WoUlD nEvEr SiT a 40M+ pOiNt GuArD. uNpReCeDaTeD. nEvEr In NbA hIsToRy.
    Yeah the Rockets are stuck with him. Heís a shell of his former self. No ones gonna take on that contract for a broken player.

  10. #1165
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Yeah the Rockets are stuck with him. Heís a shell of his former self. No ones gonna take on that contract for a broken player.
    they're gonna sit him and try to trade him/buy him out next year as predicted but i wonder if he'll opt into his option.

  11. #1166
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    they're gonna sit him and try to trade him/buy him out next year as predicted but i wonder if he'll opt into his option.
    He would be insane to do that. Heíll never make that money back. He opts out and teams only offer him the mid level or less, heíll be kicking himself. I mean it would be amazing for the Rockets but I just donít see how his agent would even allow that even if he considered it.

  12. #1167
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    Interesting discussion about siakams contract on Reddit right now. The question posed:
    If MU waited until after the bubble to sign siakam, how much would he have gotten?

    The consensus is that he would have still gotten the max because he was all-nba 2nd team and an all star starter that year. I agree with this take. Guys like him who contribute in all facets of the game get the max.

    Any opinions?

  13. #1168
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    Hereís an interesting comment (smart MU):
    ďPascal would have gotten paid more, not less.

    Pascal made the All-NBA second team that season, which put him in a position to ask for 30% of the cap over 5 years. Something closer to 5/190 (give or take a few million). The FO negotiated his contract so that Pascal only got 28% of the cap if he made All-NBA second team, meaning that Pascal ultimately got paid LESS than he could have by signing his extension early.ď

    We actually saved around 10 mil over the 4 year contract with this move by MU. Also saved that 5th year.

  14. #1169
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Hereís an interesting comment (smart MU):
    ďPascal would have gotten paid more, not less.

    Pascal made the All-NBA second team that season, which put him in a position to ask for 30% of the cap over 5 years. Something closer to 5/190 (give or take a few million). The FO negotiated his contract so that Pascal only got 28% of the cap if he made All-NBA second team, meaning that Pascal ultimately got paid LESS than he could have by signing his extension early.ď

    We actually saved around 10 mil over the 4 year contract with this move by MU. Also saved that 5th year.
    whoever wrote that is ******** and doesnt know **** about the CBA.

  15. #1170
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    whoever wrote that is ******** and doesnt know **** about the CBA.
    Please explain. Thatís why I brought the convo here: so an actual conversation can be had about it, and so I can get some clarification. Reddit is the worst for convos or correct info

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