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  1. #76
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    I donít see how Mitch can be labeled a bust, our offensive line looking this bad, and offensive playcalling looking this terrible that Pace would deserve another chance. I donít agree that Mitch is a bust yet as others are constantly saying, but why would Pace deserve another chance? Because he traded for Mack? Any of us could have made that move. Because he drafted so well? Look again at these drafts. Heís constantly trading picks away, and guys havenít performed. He needs Mitch to perform, or in my opinion, heís going to be out of a job.

  2. #77
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    Trubisky had zero pedigree, zero accomplishment in college. He played at a middling college program where he played minimal games. He was looked at by some as the #1 QB but no, not all. With his zero accomplishments in college in limited play why was he looked at highly by some, including our GM? In the end it had to come down to measurables. He had the looks, he had the prototypical height, he had arm strength. And when it comes to GMís and their legacies I think all of them want to find that diamond in the rough, the guy not well known who goes on to be a hall of famer. I have said before I can sort of understand not picking Mahomes at the time, he was not projected to be what he is. But Trubisky over Watson? Watson and his national championship, beating Alabama twice. My guess is Watson did not fall into the prototypical mold of what Pace wanted. He wanted Brady, Montana. It is a blunder of epic proportions.

  3. #78
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    The narrative that a qb is too dumb to comprehend an nfl playbook and read a defense is not a common one. It's bad that its even being speculated on a national level. I said it when he was drafted- that i was worried he was too slow for the position. Before he even played a snap.

    If that ends up being the case, I just dont see how the bears didnt see it. They were just enamored with how nice he is?

    The book isn't written on Mitch. Maybe the hype- that exists for a reason- got to his head. Hopefully the time off has been productive.
    Last edited by blams; 10-10-2019 at 09:06 AM.

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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvaged Ship View Post
    Trubisky had zero pedigree, zero accomplishment in college. He played at a middling college program where he played minimal games. He was looked at by some as the #1 QB but no, not all. With his zero accomplishments in college in limited play why was he looked at highly by some, including our GM? In the end it had to come down to measurables. He had the looks, he had the prototypical height, he had arm strength. And when it comes to GMís and their legacies I think all of them want to find that diamond in the rough, the guy not well known who goes on to be a hall of famer. I have said before I can sort of understand not picking Mahomes at the time, he was not projected to be what he is. But Trubisky over Watson? Watson and his national championship, beating Alabama twice. My guess is Watson did not fall into the prototypical mold of what Pace wanted. He wanted Brady, Montana. It is a blunder of epic proportions.
    Iím not gonna just draft Watson because he won national championships. Those are team accomplishments and each time he had a stacked team to help him win. If team accomplishments mattered even a little, then Bama QBs would get drafted every year and theyíd be all over the league. But guess what? McCarron is the only guy to even get much tread in the least decade plus. Tua will change that, but again, team accomplishments mean jack ****.


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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Iím not gonna just draft Watson because he won national championships. Those are team accomplishments and each time he had a stacked team to help him win. If team accomplishments mattered even a little, then Bama QBs would get drafted every year and theyíd be all over the league. But guess what? McCarron is the only guy to even get much tread in the least decade plus. Tua will change that, but again, team accomplishments mean jack ****.


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    Surprised that McCaron was hyped so much, got one season ending injury, and seemingly won't get another shot

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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    I think most GMs struggle with drafting QBs. Itís the hardest position to project in all of sports. It hurts more because Pace seems to have picked the worse of the top QBs but then again, most had Mitch as the #1 QB. All of the Bears scouts had Mitch as the #1 QB. What is Pace going to do, go against everyone of his scouts? That doesnít seem very smart either. Looks like he missed but I think most in his situation would have missed too.
    This is just one example, but Ozzie Newsome (one of the best GM's in recent memory) never drafted a great QB. He whiffed on Kyle Boller and Flacco was never great. His last QB pick was Lamar Jackson.

    I guess the point I'm making is it's a very difficult position to evaluate and even the best GM's miss repeatedly. I don't want to let go of Pace because I don't want to sit through another rebuild and he's built a pretty strong roster overall. He's clearly going to have to alter his philosophy on QB's though.
    Last edited by DamnGoat; 10-10-2019 at 09:43 AM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Surprised that McCaron was hyped so much, got one season ending injury, and seemingly won't get another shot

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    A few years ago the Browns actually traded for McCarron (for a 2nd IIRC), but forgot to send the paperwork to the league office, so the deal was nullified.

    That may have been his best shot and he's really never been given a chance since.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    This is just one example, but Ozzie Newsome (one of the best GM's in recent memory) never drafted a great QB. He whiffed on Kyle Boller and Flacco was never great. His last QB pick was Lamar Jackson.

    I guess the point I'm making is it's a very difficult position to evaluate and even the best GM's miss repeatedly. I don't want to let go of Pace because I don't want to sit through another rebuild and he's built a pretty strong roster overall.
    I totally agree with this.

    There are more QB's drafted that turn out mediocre to busted than Elite QB's.

    Pace has built a strong roster since he's been here and he started with crap.

    Pace is a good GM. IMO.

    As for Mitch, I haven't thrown the towel in like some fans have. Am I concerned? Yes. But the Oline or WR's haven't helped him out at all this year.

    I'd be ok with Pace trading for Rosen and drafting a QB and have all three compete for the starting spot next season.

  9. #84
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    I also like the idea of Rosen. He's going to cost next to nothing (maybe a 4th round pick, at best) and still has 2 more years left on his Rookie deal. He may also be bad, but he's not been in a good situation yet, and I always like taking chances on guys with that kind of pedigree.

    Either way, there's likely going to be a lot of QB's available this offseason. Mariota, Winston, Foles (via trade), Bridgewater, Tannehill...then some older, high profile guys are (right now) UFA's like Brees, Brady, Rivers. Maybe the Niners make Nick Mullens available via trade or move on from Jimmy G. A lot of potential options to replace Trubisky, if it comes to that.
    Last edited by DamnGoat; 10-10-2019 at 10:17 AM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Iím not gonna just draft Watson because he won national championships. Those are team accomplishments and each time he had a stacked team to help him win. If team accomplishments mattered even a little, then Bama QBs would get drafted every year and theyíd be all over the league. But guess what? McCarron is the only guy to even get much tread in the least decade plus. Tua will change that, but again, team accomplishments mean jack ****.


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    It may not necessarily be winning championships but you can judge how a guy performs in major pressure situations against major competition. Watson performed great against epic defenses, Bamas defenses had how many top draft picks? Trubisky did not have that type of competition to judge him against. And when giving Trubisky a pass because of the O line, I try to judge his performance on plays he is getting good protection. Itís been poor. And Watson may be playing with a worse offensive line in Houston, the guy is sacked and running for his life constantly.

    Pace missed on the pick, plain and simple. We are hoping a guy we drafted #2 and gave up loads to move up one spot ends up serviceable, that appears to be the ceiling. That sucks

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvaged Ship View Post
    It may not necessarily be winning championships but you can judge how a guy performs in major pressure situations against major competition. Watson performed great against epic defenses, Bamas defenses had how many top draft picks? Trubisky did not have that type of competition to judge him against. And when giving Trubisky a pass because of the O line, I try to judge his performance on plays he is getting good protection. Itís been poor. And Watson may be playing with a worse offensive line in Houston, the guy is sacked and running for his life constantly.

    Pace missed on the pick, plain and simple. We are hoping a guy we drafted #2 and gave up loads to move up one spot ends up serviceable, that appears to be the ceiling. That sucks
    He is playing with a worse OL, but he allows himself to get hit more often than he should by holding the ball forever.

    I'm not denying that he's good. I was definitely wrong about him coming out, but I have some concerns about how he'll hold up with the amount of unnecessary hits he takes.

    As far as Mitch goes. I think it's inaccurate to say serviceable is his ceiling. His ceiling is still high IMO (we've seen it, briefly. He's had a couple awesome games). The problem is, his floor is much lower than I think many anticipated, and there's no consistency in his week to week play. I'm not completely out on him yet, and he's going to get the rest of this season anyway, but if there's not significant improvement then it's time to move on. I also don't think Pace/Nagy will hesitate to move on either.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    He is playing with a worse OL, but he allows himself to get hit more often than he should by holding the ball forever.

    I'm not denying that he's good. I was definitely wrong about him coming out, but I have some concerns about how he'll hold up with the amount of unnecessary hits he takes.

    As far as Mitch goes. I think it's inaccurate to say serviceable is his ceiling. His ceiling is still high IMO (we've seen it, briefly. He's had a couple awesome games). The problem is, his floor is much lower than I think many anticipated, and there's no consistency in his week to week play. I'm not completely out on him yet, and he's going to get the rest of this season anyway, but if there's not significant improvement then it's time to move on. I also don't think Pace/Nagy will hesitate to move on either.
    If Trubisky was a third round pick and played the way he has to this point would you still think his ceiling is high? A few games out of 30 against sieve defenses like Tampa? Would anyone still be saying give him more time, stick with him, if he was a mid round pick? I get the impression the high hopes from some fans still hoping for a high ceiling come from where he was drafted and what was given up to get him, combined with hope because we are kind of stuck with him. I canít buy itís based on anything we have seen, he just doesnít seem to know what to do back there and when he does get guys open past 10 yards he is inaccurate.

    It sucks, I hate it. When you draft someone that high you are shooting for a star, top 10 QB at least. And when two guys taken after him are so good it makes it worse. No one wanted this to happen, we all wanted Trubisky to be what they hoped he would be.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorvath721 View Post
    I donít see how Mitch can be labeled a bust, our offensive line looking this bad, and offensive playcalling looking this terrible that Pace would deserve another chance. I donít agree that Mitch is a bust yet as others are constantly saying, but why would Pace deserve another chance? Because he traded for Mack? Any of us could have made that move. Because he drafted so well? Look again at these drafts. Heís constantly trading picks away, and guys havenít performed. He needs Mitch to perform, or in my opinion, heís going to be out of a job.
    For me Mitch can be labeled a ďbustĒ based on context. When a team trades up to #2 to draft a QB you are looking for a franchise guy. 2.5 yrs in and Mitch is closer to being moved-on from than he is being a franchise guy. Right now he looks at best to be a league average starter in his prime - and if he was a consistent 10-15 QB I wouldnít say he was a bust, but a disappointment. If he is drafted mid 2nd that would be fine, but being draft 2nd overall comes with higher expectations.

    I say all this having been one of the bigger Mitch supporters on here. But currently Mitch is nowhere near living up to his draft spot and I think he is far enough away that you have to start considering him (at least) as a possible bust.

    For context, many think Floyd is a disappointment, but he was drafted later and has performed at a comparatively better level than Mitch. So what does that say for Mitch?


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  14. #89
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    Honestly though, you canít really judge Trubisky yet. This was a big year for him, and he got hurt. How anyone can say he is a bust right now, it just isnít fair. He played zero preseason games the past two years, and has struggled those first few games. He looked a lot better week 3 vs Washington, that interception at the goal line was unacceptable, and he knows that, but letís not think other top level QBs make mistakes too. Then he got hurt. We have no clue how his injury will hinder him the rest of the season, but letís wait a few more weeks to make any judgements now that he is a bust.

    I donít know what statistics people want to use to judge QBs because there are so many different variables in play. How good your line is, who your weapons are, whoís calling the plays, how good your defense is, how good the defenses are that you play, do you play in bad weather or a dome? But at the end of the day, with Trubisky as our QB, we have been 13-5. Iíll take that all day. Those 5 losses have been combined under 20 points.

  15. #90
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