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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    A contractor hired to maintain something should have expertise in maintaining those things. If they are bad at the job they should be fired. If a maintenance company employs someone who doesn't know how to torque a bolt they should be fired. If by not knowing their job they put people at risk and someone gets injured they would likely be sued and lose.
    This is an absolutely insane stance
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    This is an absolutely insane stance
    It's not insane, it is unnecessary, but this is america, the entire judicial system and economic system is predicated on unnecessary. That's the law of the land, it's not a regulation specific thing

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    This is an absolutely insane stance
    It's reality.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's reality.
    I replied to the wrong comment. I meant that removing 99% of regulations and everything being ok is an insane stance
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    A contractor hired to maintain something should have expertise in maintaining those things. If they are bad at the job they should be fired. If a maintenance company employs someone who doesn't know how to torque a bolt they should be fired. If by not knowing their job they put people at risk and someone gets injured they would likely be sued and lose.
    OK, what constitutes expertise? Training? Experience? The ability to perform specific tasks to a specific standard? What tasks? What standard? What constitutes bad at their job? Slow? Incapable of performing the tasks correctly? In the proper manner?

    There are literally hundreds of clarifying questions needed for your above statements to even begin to become enforceable. It's why your attempts at coming up with vague generalities would be absolutely worthless in a court of law. You've actually now demonstrated the need for specificity in our laws.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I do need the government requiring particular standards to helps ensure I dont have to worry about my tire flying off.

    Like I dont want to find out AFTERWARD the guy that just performed surgery on me never actually went to med school, y know

    How does that regulation slow down business anyway?
    Nope you don't need any regulation at all! So your tire flew off on the freeway doing 65 causing you to crash and your daughter to die? Well, at least now you know not to use that mechanic again

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    I replied to the wrong comment. I meant that removing 99% of regulations and everything being ok is an insane stance
    I said 90%. Later I said maybe as much as 99%.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    OK, what constitutes expertise? Training? Experience? The ability to perform specific tasks to a specific standard? What tasks? What standard? What constitutes bad at their job? Slow? Incapable of performing the tasks correctly? In the proper manner?

    There are literally hundreds of clarifying questions needed for your above statements to even begin to become enforceable. It's why your attempts at coming up with vague generalities would be absolutely worthless in a court of law. You've actually now demonstrated the need for specificity in our laws.
    I disagree. We don't have to define every bit of life in regulations. If you think we do I'm sorry for your lack of faith in humans.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I disagree. We don't have to define every bit of life in regulations. If you think we do I'm sorry for your lack of faith in humans.
    It's actually the opposite of a lack of faith in humans, it's a great appreciation for our attention to detail. For instance, you have yet to address the questions I posed about your simplistic "regulations" you proposed. I assure you, if the regulation was "mechanics should be experts", the amount of additional detail needed in that one statement to make any sort of ruling is staggering.

    I currently write policy procedures for a 1-star command in the military. If you have never had to deal with the ramifications of a policy, I can understand how you would think a simplistic, almost childlike approach to writing them would be best. But I assure you, it the more vague it is the more trouble it creates.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It's actually the opposite of a lack of faith in humans, it's a great appreciation for our attention to detail. For instance, you have yet to address the questions I posed about your simplistic "regulations" you proposed. I assure you, if the regulation was "mechanics should be experts", the amount of additional detail needed in that one statement to make any sort of ruling is staggering.

    I currently write policy procedures for a 1-star command in the military. If you have never had to deal with the ramifications of a policy, I can understand how you would think a simplistic, almost childlike approach to writing them would be best. But I assure you, it the more vague it is the more trouble it creates.
    I wasn't suggesting a regulation that mechanics should be experts. I was suggesting the removal of a regulation.

    I've had to do some procedural writing for the military and it's not a good comparison for civilian life.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I wasn't suggesting a regulation that mechanics should be experts. I was suggesting the removal of a regulation.

    I've had to do some procedural writing for the military and it's not a good comparison for civilian life.
    Yeah, and I was saying the removal of regulation is a bad idea. Are you saying that people professions should not be regulated? Or just mechanics?

    It is not a good comparison in that the substance is different, the attention to detail when it comes to drafting and writing laws however, is spot on. I'm not attacking you by the way. People who really don't deal with writing these things generally have no clue what goes into them and why they are the way they are. It's like I said, a childlike naivetť. I suspect that is the case here.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I said 90%. Later I said maybe as much as 99%.
    I'll say this. I'm in real estate and have loosely gone through the construction process. I deal with regulations all the time. Majority of regulations, they are very understandable. At least in construction. I see why most hoops are where they are, I can see it especially from the home buyers perspective.

    Now even if 20% of regulations are unnecessary, that's a HIGH number. Working on projects and keeping them moving is not an easy thing, wasting 20% of efficiency off the top is a major blow. Especially if you're operating with tight margins, which is happening because the market is tight as **** right now.

    I agree some regulations are bull ****, I'm sure people have agendas and try and push them thru and via regulation is certainly one route. If I owned a paving company then you damn right I'm tryina get law passed that all owners with public parking must resurface every 12 years. I understand there are regulations that are a waste, but that shouldn't detract from why we need them in the first place.

  13. #58
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    Well, I don't think we are likely to convince each other.

    Military rules are made to work on even the dumbest people possible ... I hated writing procedures for them ... had to break things down nearly to the point of step by step instructions on how to walk.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Well, I don't think we are likely to convince each other.

    Military rules are made to work on even the dumbest people possible ... I hated writing procedures for them ... had to break things down nearly to the point of step by step instructions on how to walk.
    I agree with you that there are too many regulations. I agree with Vlade about how you write procedures. You write for the uninformed reader. I feel the issue comes who is writing the rules. Often they are uninformed or donít know what itís like on the ground


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I agree with you that there are too many regulations. I agree with Vlade about how you write procedures. You write for the uninformed reader. I feel the issue comes who is writing the rules. Often they are uninformed or donít know what itís like on the ground


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    My problems with most of the regulations I've read is that there is not enough flexibility in the enforcement, and sometimes the spirit of the regulation gets lost in the minutiae.

    And some regulation is just regulation because it seems someone felt they needed to add a regulation to be seen doing their job. And some of it costs the public billions for effectively no gain.

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