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  1. #1081
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    I do not know for sure but I think this is what Posada is trying to say.

    Any of these prospects are tradeable for the right price.

    I agree with this statement. I do not agree that prospects are expendable, but I think my definition of expendable is different than Posada's. To me, expendable means someone who can be discarded for any major league asset. To Posada, I think expendable just means willing to trade for the RIGHT major league asset.

    Therefore, I actually think we all are very close to saying the same exact thing here and are all just arguing semantics.

    I did see one person say they would not trade Medina or Dominguez even for an ace. That I disagree with. I would definitely trade Medina for an ace. Dominguez, I really can't say because I haven't seen him in live action games yet. For him I will defer to those who have (aka Yankees front office).

  2. #1082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Rama View Post
    I do not know for sure but I think this is what Posada is trying to say.

    Any of these prospects are tradeable for the right price.

    I agree with this statement. I do not agree that prospects are expendable, but I think my definition of expendable is different than Posada's. To me, expendable means someone who can be discarded for any major league asset. To Posada, I think expendable just means willing to trade for the RIGHT major league asset.

    Therefore, I actually think we all are very close to saying the same exact thing here and are all just arguing semantics.

    I did see one person say they would not trade Medina or Dominguez even for an ace. That I disagree with. I would definitely trade Medina for an ace. Dominguez, I really can't say because I haven't seen him in live action games yet. For him I will defer to those who have (aka Yankees front office).
    That is exactly what I have been saying . Finally someone gets it . And that is why I would still think Castillo is not off the table . There is plenty of minor league talent available that they could trade for him and still likely not have to trade dom .

  3. #1083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Rama View Post
    I would caution that none of these guys are expendable. Injuries will always happen, and thus depth carries tremendous importance. That being said, if some team wants to pick two of these guys and send us one of their aces I am all for it. Any two quite frankly. There is so much that can go wrong between the minor leagues and becoming a major league pitcher, including injuries, loss of confidence, and just not being as good as originally thought. A bird in the hand is worth two in the tree. The two in the tree are any of these guys we're talking about. The bird in the hand is an already major league proven ace. That being said I would way rather they sign Bauer and not trade any of these guys.

    Roansy Contreras does not have the ceiling of Gil or Medina, however once you get to a guy with the ceiling of Contreras, there honestly isn't much above that. Contreras has the stuff to be an ace if all breaks right. He does not hit triple digits but he has hit 98. Sure, the guys with 100 mph fastballs have a "higher" ceiling, but at the end of the day an ace is an ace. Once you reach that level what separates you from the rest is command, control, and moxie.
    For the right player or at the right price of course anyone should be available. What i have said is we need to develop our own pitching so we can get off this yearly shite show of looking for starting pitching. If they are going to trade our top pitching specs, i would rather they trade one of Garcia/ Schmidt vs Roansy, Gil and Medina.

    I know that the Reds asked for Dominguez as part of a package in return for Castillio and the Yanks said no. From everything i've seen, read, heard the Yanks have refused to part with Dominguez in any deal thats been discussed. I'll trust their decision in regards to him

    While i 100% agree with you that an ace in hand is worth any two of these prospects, other than Snell who we had zero chance of getting, who this winter that has been traded or is available is worth giving up those elite specs for? Castillio is a very, very good young pitcher but i wouldn't say he's an "Ace" just yet.

    Excellent assessment of Roansy, Gil and Medina and their ceilings. In the 15 yrs i've been really following Yanks spec we've never had a group of pitchers with these kind of ceilings and i'm so sick and tired of searching and failing for starting pitching at almost every chance we get. Tanaka looks like the only long term success we've had in recent memory acquiring starting pitching. I'm sure Cole will be in that group as well but last yr SSS doesn't prove he'll be a long term success.

    When you have 3 pitchers with their kind of talent and aren't that far away from the MLB, are constantly searching for starting pitching and lots of other pitching specs available to trade, i have just said i would be extremely reluctant to trade any of them unless it was for a true ace

    Phoba you mentioned preferring them to sign Bauer vs trading our elite specs, do you think he's worth the 36M+ he asking for? He's had 1 great season and 11 strong starts last yr and is already 30. Even if the Yanks loved him do u really think Hal would commit somewhere between 65-70m+ on 2 pitchers in their 30's for a minimum of the next 5yrs? If we could get Bauer for somewhere in the 22-25m range which is what i think i far closer to his actual value, i'd be far more interested in signing him. Anything close to what he is asking for now i think would be a massive overpay
    Last edited by dayners81; 01-15-2021 at 02:15 AM.

  4. #1084
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    I just don’t understand how one could possibly put greater value on “ potential “ unproven talent over proven top talent . That just makes no sense to me , especially with a team that is supposed to be built to win now . And yes Castillo is proven top talent . So was darvish .

  5. #1085
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    I just can't understand how some people don't understand the importance of having a continuous pipeline of prospects is. IMO and the Yanks they haven't had anyone that they consider " worth it to trade Dominguez for". If there was a no doubt, younger, controllable Ace available then maybe thats a different story.

    We don't need another Ace, we already have 1 of the top 2 aces in baseball, what we need is a solid # 2. From the Yanks perspective, as multiple sources from inside their ORG, especially from Cashman have said this winter, they feel like they have a 2nd ace coming back in Sevy. That doesn't mean we don't need another TORP but with Cole and Sevy coming back we don't desperately need and ace, we need a #2

    Darvish is older, expensive and didn't require giving up top talent to get, just the willingness to take on his salary and they Yanks weren;t willing to do that

    Lynn would have been a solid addition to the rotation but again he didn't require Dominguez

    Snell its highly unlikely we had a chance at him

    NO WAY they want to take a chance of Gray becoming Pavano 2.0, they got rid of him for peanuts and now would have to pay a premium to get him , no way thats happening.

    That pretty much leaves Castillio. While i would love to have him and have wanted to trade for him for the last few yrs, he's not an ace. I actually think he has a chance to be a legit Ace but he's not there yet. He wasn't even the best pitcher on his team last yr and you could make an strong argument that he wasn;t even considerably better than Gray. He's a TORP but he's not an ace, atleast not yet. Cincy wants to be blow anyway by an offer to move him. According to Passan and multiple other sources Cincy asked for Dominguez +++ in a deal for him and the Yanks turned that down.

    In a normal yr the price for a legit Ace is 2-3 top specs or young players and some high ceiling throw ins. The Sale trade is a great example of what it usually cost to get an true Ace. If i top 15 pitcher was available this winter i would be much more receptive to trading ANYONE

    I would offer Frazier and anyone other than Dominguez and Medina for him. I would rather they trade one of Schmidt/ Garcia instead of Gil or Roansy but if one of them had to go to get Castillio it would be completely understandable.

    Having an incredible rotation doesn't insure that you're going to win in the playoffs like some would like to believe. in 14 the Tigers had prime Verlander, Scherzer and Price, easily 3 aces at the time, got beat in the first round of the playoffs. You need a balanced lineup, rotation and BP to be successful in the playoffs
    Last edited by dayners81; 01-15-2021 at 02:04 AM.

  6. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    I just can't understand how some people don't understand the importance of having a continuous pipeline of prospects is. IMO and the Yanks they haven't had anyone that they consider " worth it to trade Dominguez for". If there was a no doubt, younger, controllable Ace available then maybe thats a different story.

    We don't need another Ace, we already have 1 of the top 2 aces in baseball, what we need is a solid # 2. From the Yanks perspective, as multiple sources from inside their ORG, especially from Cashman have said this winter, they feel like they have a 2nd ace coming back in Sevy. That doesn't mean we don't need another TORP but with Cole and Sevy coming back we don't desperately need and ace, we need a #2

    Darvish is older, expensive and didn't require giving up top talent to get, just the willingness to take on his salary and they Yanks weren;t willing to do that

    Lynn would have been a solid addition to the rotation but again he didn't require Dominguez

    Snell its highly unlikely we had a chance at him

    NO WAY they want to take a chance of Gray becoming Pavano 2.0, they got rid of him for peanuts and now would have to pay a premium to get him , no way thats happening.

    That pretty much leaves Castillio. While i would love to have him and have wanted to trade for him for the last few yrs, he's not an ace. I actually think he has a chance to be a legit Ace but he's not there yet. He wasn't even the best pitcher on his team last yr and you could make an strong argument that he wasn;t even considerably better than Gray. He's a TORP but he's not an ace, atleast not yet. Cincy wants to be blow anyway by an offer to move him. According to Passan and multiple other sources Cincy asked for Dominguez +++ in a deal for him and the Yanks turned that down.

    In a normal yr the price for a legit Ace is 2-3 top specs or young players and some high ceiling throw ins. The Sale trade is a great example of what it usually cost to get an true Ace. If i top 15 pitcher was available this winter i would be much more receptive to trading ANYONE

    I would offer Frazier and anyone other than Dominguez and Medina for him. I would rather they trade one of Schmidt/ Garcia instead of Gil or Roansy but if one of them had to go to get Castillio it would be completely understandable.

    Having an incredible rotation doesn't insure that you're going to win in the playoffs like some would like to believe. in 14 the Tigers had prime Verlander, Scherzer and Price, easily 3 aces at the time, got beat in the first round of the playoffs. You need a balanced lineup, rotation and BP to be successful in the playoffs
    Wrong , the tigers won two pennants in 6 years with that rotation you are talking about . The tigers eliminated the Yankees in both of those years . 2012 was the last post season that Derek jeter ever played in , it was the game vs the tigers in the alcs that he broke his ankle . The tigers lost in the World Series both those years because of their bad bullpen . But they atleast made it to the World Series twice with that great rotation . The mets had an incredible rotation in 15 and made it to the ws . The rays had incredible pitching and made it to the ws last season . Then there was the nats that moved on from Harper and won a ws after they made their rotation top notch . That’s a lot more than what the Yankees got from the last three cores that cashman brought up from the minors . Do you know the odds of more than one of those prospects living it up to their “ potential “ ? This team is built to win now not in 2 or 3 years . In 2 years they lose their best relievers and they will have to decide what to do with Sanchez and judge . And on top of that they could lose sevy too if they buy out his last year . Cant say the yanks are in it to win it now and at the same time want to wait for the next. “Core” . Can only do one or the other . And Castillo is the starter they should trade one or two of those “ untouchables” for . He would likely give the yanks the top of the rotation they haven’t had since 09 . And make the rotation so much deeper . There is just simply no valid excuse to not work a trade out with the reds for Castillo .
    Last edited by Posada20; 01-15-2021 at 02:42 AM.

  7. #1087
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    I just can't understand how some people don't understand the importance of having a continuous pipeline of prospects is. IMO and the Yanks they haven't had anyone that they consider " worth it to trade Dominguez for". If there was a no doubt, younger, controllable Ace available then maybe thats a different story.

    We don't need another Ace, we already have 1 of the top 2 aces in baseball, what we need is a solid # 2. From the Yanks perspective, as multiple sources from inside their ORG, especially from Cashman have said this winter, they feel like they have a 2nd ace coming back in Sevy. That doesn't mean we don't need another TORP but with Cole and Sevy coming back we don't desperately need and ace, we need a #2

    Darvish is older, expensive and didn't require giving up top talent to get, just the willingness to take on his salary and they Yanks weren;t willing to do that

    Lynn would have been a solid addition to the rotation but again he didn't require Dominguez

    Snell its highly unlikely we had a chance at him

    NO WAY they want to take a chance of Gray becoming Pavano 2.0, they got rid of him for peanuts and now would have to pay a premium to get him , no way thats happening.

    That pretty much leaves Castillio. While i would love to have him and have wanted to trade for him for the last few yrs, he's not an ace. I actually think he has a chance to be a legit Ace but he's not there yet. He wasn't even the best pitcher on his team last yr and you could make an strong argument that he wasn;t even considerably better than Gray. He's a TORP but he's not an ace, atleast not yet. Cincy wants to be blow anyway by an offer to move him. According to Passan and multiple other sources Cincy asked for Dominguez +++ in a deal for him and the Yanks turned that down.

    In a normal yr the price for a legit Ace is 2-3 top specs or young players and some high ceiling throw ins. The Sale trade is a great example of what it usually cost to get an true Ace. If i top 15 pitcher was available this winter i would be much more receptive to trading ANYONE

    I would offer Frazier and anyone other than Dominguez and Medina for him. I would rather they trade one of Schmidt/ Garcia instead of Gil or Roansy but if one of them had to go to get Castillio it would be completely understandable.

    Having an incredible rotation doesn't insure that you're going to win in the playoffs like some would like to believe. in 14 the Tigers had prime Verlander, Scherzer and Price, easily 3 aces at the time, got beat in the first round of the playoffs. You need a balanced lineup, rotation and BP to be successful in the playoffs
    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    Wrong , the tigers won two pennants in 6 years with that rotation you are talking about . The tigers eliminated the Yankees in both of those years . 2012 was the last post season that Derek jeter ever played in , it was the game vs the tigers in the alcs that he broke his ankle . The tigers lost in the World Series both those years because of their bad bullpen . But they atleast made it to the World Series twice with that great rotation . The mets had an incredible rotation in 15 and made it to the ws . The rays had incredible pitching and made it to the ws last season . Then there was the nats that moved on from Harper and won a ws after they made their rotation top notch . That’s a lot more than what the Yankees got from the last three cores that cashman brought up from the minors . Do you know the odds of more than one of those prospects living it up to their “ potential “ ? This team is built to win now not in 2 or 3 years . In 2 years they lose their best relievers and they will have to decide what to do with Sanchez and judge . And on top of that they could lose sevy too if they buy out his last year . Cant say the yanks are in it to win it now and at the same time want to wait for the next. “Core” . Can only do one or the other .
    2014 AL Division Series
    Baltimore Orioles over Detroit Tigers (3-0)
    2014 AL Division Series
    Baltimore Orioles over Detroit Tigers (3-0)
    They only had Verlander, Scherzer and Price for 1 yr which they got swept out of the 1st round

    I never said anything about multiple yrs u troglodyte. i don't reply to your post, you stay away from mine remember or did that only imply to that one argument

  8. #1088
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    2014 AL Division Series
    Baltimore Orioles over Detroit Tigers (3-0)
    2014 AL Division Series
    Baltimore Orioles over Detroit Tigers (3-0)
    They only had Verlander, Scherzer and Price for 1 yr which they got swept out of the 1st round

    I never said anything about multiple yrs u troglodyte. i don't reply to your post, you stay away from mine remember or did that only imply to that one argument
    They had scherzer and verlander in 2012 and verlander in 2006 . They never had scherzer , price and verlander in the rotation at the same time though . Point is they had great starting pitching in 06 and 12.
    https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/staff.shtml

  9. #1089
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    https://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...avis/16583929/
    The Tigers have a four-man rotation of Max Scherzer, who starts tonight, followed by Justin Verlander, lefty David Price and Rick Porcello. The Tigers have two lefties in the bullpen: Phil Coke and Kyle Lobstein.

  10. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    https://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...avis/16583929/
    The Tigers have a four-man rotation of Max Scherzer, who starts tonight, followed by Justin Verlander, lefty David Price and Rick Porcello. The Tigers have two lefties in the bullpen: Phil Coke and Kyle Lobstein.
    I was going by what that link I posted showed me , my bad . Either way the tigers beat the yanks twice in the playoffs because they had better starting pitching . Verlander and scherzer were better than any starting pitcher the yanks had those two seasons .

  11. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoba Rama View Post
    I do not know for sure but I think this is what Posada is trying to say.

    Any of these prospects are tradeable for the right price.

    I agree with this statement. I do not agree that prospects are expendable, but I think my definition of expendable is different than Posada's. To me, expendable means someone who can be discarded for any major league asset. To Posada, I think expendable just means willing to trade for the RIGHT major league asset.

    Therefore, I actually think we all are very close to saying the same exact thing here and are all just arguing semantics.

    I did see one person say they would not trade Medina or Dominguez even for an ace. That I disagree with. I would definitely trade Medina for an ace. Dominguez, I really can't say because I haven't seen him in live action games yet. For him I will defer to those who have (aka Yankees front office).

    My lord, that is scary. I hope you are ok. And this isn't about ER or Covid stuff this is about thinking like him.
    We will monitor you for lingering affects and symptoms, like you always saying things suck.

    Actually, I agree with you but he won't. He will find a reason to argue that you meant something different. lol

    I was the one who said that. After I said it I thought about it and realized that I would move him for an ace. Waiting for Medina to become an ace when we could have one now, makes no sense.
    I will say, I wouldn't trade him for an Ace over the age of 32 but a guy I n his late 20s early 30s? Yes. Why wait for him and risk the pitfalls when you could have a guy right now and for 5-7 years that is established.

    So my only untouchable is Dominguez.
    Last edited by Kinkotheclown; 01-15-2021 at 05:19 PM.



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  12. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    2014 AL Division Series
    Baltimore Orioles over Detroit Tigers (3-0)
    2014 AL Division Series
    Baltimore Orioles over Detroit Tigers (3-0)
    They only had Verlander, Scherzer and Price for 1 yr which they got swept out of the 1st round

    I never said anything about multiple yrs u troglodyte. i don't reply to your post, you stay away from mine remember or did that only imply to that one argument
    Dayum! Day dropping the T word and doing it with precision and accuracy!



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  13. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    ingering affects and symptoms, like you always saying things suck.

    Actually, I agree with you but he won't. He will find a reason to argue that you meant something different. lol

    I was the one who said that. After I said it I thought about it and realized that I would move him for an ace. Waiting for Medina to become an ace when we could have one now, makes no sense.
    I will say, I wouldn't trade him for an Ace over the age of 32 but a guy I n his late 20s early 30s? Yes. Why wait for him and risk the pitfalls when you could have a guy right now and for 5-7 years that is established.

    So my only untouchable is Dominguez.
    i don't disagree with u but my question would be would u trade multiple high level pieces like Frazier, Medina, Peraza plus for 3yrs of Castillio ? I agree he is a TORP but i don't think he's a legit ace, yet.

    If there was a legit Ace available and i only think there are about 10-15 true aces in all of baseball, that would completely change the situation for me. Even then i would try like hell to not trade Medina. We've got to develop our own starting pitching so we can quit doing this every yr. This kid has a legit ace ceiling and isn't that far away, especially if he continues to pitch like he did in winter ball.

    If Dominguez were my 1A, Medina would be my 1B

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Dayum! Day dropping the T word and doing it with precision and accuracy!
    learned from the best

  14. #1094
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    i don't disagree with u but my question would be would u trade multiple high level pieces like Frazier, Medina, Peraza plus for 3yrs of Castillio ? I agree he is a TORP but i don't think he's a legit ace, yet.

    If there was a legit Ace available and i only think there are about 10-15 true aces in all of baseball, that would completely change the situation for me. Even then i would try like hell to not trade Medina. We've got to develop our own starting pitching so we can quit doing this every yr. This kid has a legit ace ceiling and isn't that far away, especially if he continues to pitch like he did in winter ball.

    If Dominguez were my 1A, Medina would be my 1B

    learned from the best
    No. I wouldn't do that trade and for the very reason you cited. I would give up 1 or two of them and some mid levels.
    I would also not do Medina for Castillo, for the same reason.
    If Cleveland wanted to move Beiber? Medina for sure.

    Also, the first sentence of my post to phobia was cut off, it should have read

    "My lord, that is scary. I hope you are ok. And this isn't about ER or Covid stuff this is about thinking like him.
    We will monitor you for lingering affects and symptoms, like you always saying things suck."
    Last edited by Kinkotheclown; 01-15-2021 at 05:21 PM.



    Ignorance is bliss

  15. #1095
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    i don't disagree with u but my question would be would u trade multiple high level pieces like Frazier, Medina, Peraza plus for 3yrs of Castillio ? I agree he is a TORP but i don't think he's a legit ace, yet.

    If there was a legit Ace available and i only think there are about 10-15 true aces in all of baseball, that would completely change the situation for me. Even then i would try like hell to not trade Medina. We've got to develop our own starting pitching so we can quit doing this every yr. This kid has a legit ace ceiling and isn't that far away, especially if he continues to pitch like he did in winter ball.

    If Dominguez were my 1A, Medina would be my 1B

    learned from the best
    Who do you think are true aces because if you go through and make a list I'm not sure you even come up with that many?

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