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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yep, bosh made double the all-star games Pau did, despite playing fewer years, put up slightly better numbers despite being the 3rd option and had far bigger production his best years than Pau.
    Pau made 4 All-NBA teams. Bosh made 1. I think All-NBA is a better measure than All-Star games.

    And Pau's advanced lines are far better than Bosh's. Not to mention, Pau put up better stats while with Kobe than Bosh did while with Bron.

    Oh, and there's the most important part here: Pau is flat out better than Bosh lol

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Is it not true? Who besides shaq and Pau is even comparable??? hell, you can also throw mo Williams and antawn Jamison into that as well because based on their output they were also better than every other teammate kobe had not named shaq or Pau.
    ok can I put in Payton, Malone, Howard, Artest Odom too? But I know what your saying. Thing is Llove put up good numbers but it did not translate to winning. Never played in a single playoff game him or Kyrie.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Pau made 4 All-NBA teams. Bosh made 1. I think All-NBA is a better measure than All-Star games.

    And Pau's advanced lines are far better than Bosh's. Not to mention, Pau put up better stats while with Kobe than Bosh did while with Bron.

    Oh, and there's the most important part here: Pau is flat out better than Bosh lol
    Oh I agree that Pau is better, but based on their max outputs bosh was the better player. They put up similar numbers when they were teamed with kobe and lbj, respectively. However, bosh did so as the 3rd option, whereas Pau put up those numbers as the 2nd option. At any rate, it really doesn't matter, because outside of Pau, Kobe had zero guys who would even be considered stars. LBJ has now had 5 such teammates and always had 2 of them together on the same team.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Pau made 4 All-NBA teams. Bosh made 1. I think All-NBA is a better measure than All-Star games.

    And Pau's advanced lines are far better than Bosh's. Not to mention, Pau put up better stats while with Kobe than Bosh did while with Bron.

    Oh, and there's the most important part here: Pau is flat out better than Bosh lol
    Better for the system and the type of inside player Lakers needed. Just the right guy at the time when skilled Pf started playing more center.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    ok can I put in Payton, Malone, Howard, Artest Odom too? But I know what your saying. Thing is Llove put up good numbers but it did not translate to winning. Never played in a single playoff game him or Kyrie.
    Payton was done at that point and was a role player, same with Malone. Artest was also done at that point and was no longer a star, odom was also a role player (go look at his output), Howard was coming off of an injury and was never the same player again. Of those players, Howard was the only one who actually produced star-type numbers during his play with kobe (but they only played one season together and kobe blew out his Achilles so they never even made a playoff run). Sure, if Kobe had those guys when they were in the primes and healthy then it would be worth mentioning, but they were all role players at that point. LBJ had these other guys when they were in their primes and were elite players.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Oh I agree that Pau is better, but based on their max outputs bosh was the better player. They put up similar numbers when they were teamed with kobe and lbj, respectively. However, bosh did so as the 3rd option, whereas Pau put up those numbers as the 2nd option. At any rate, it really doesn't matter, because outside of Pau, Kobe had zero guys who would even be considered stars. LBJ has now had 5 such teammates and always had 2 of them together on the same team.
    plays ran through Pau bud. Played a bigger role. Not because he did not score much he made the team function. By the way check the playoffs games when his defense ability to alter shots, pass and even put up monster numbers. Letís not forget him and Odom were double double machines nightly. Not even bringing up Bynum who was viewed as the second best behind Howard. Lakers had the best front court in the league. If you add that to shaq one can argue Kobe had the best front court.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Payton was done at that point and was a role player, same with Malone. Artest was also done at that point and was no longer a star, odom was also a role player (go look at his output), Howard was coming off of an injury and was never the same player again. Of those players, Howard was the only one who actually produced star-type numbers during his play with kobe (but they only played one season together and kobe blew out his Achilles so they never even made a playoff run). Sure, if Kobe had those guys when they were in the primes and healthy then it would be worth mentioning, but they were all role players at that point. LBJ had these other guys when they were in their primes and were elite players.
    they were good enough to make the playoffs with shaq injury and Kobe rape trial. Same way Lebron is 35yes old now. Well then also accept Love was and is injury prone and have a mental disorder. Kyrie also had his share of injury.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    plays ran through Pau bud. Played a bigger role. Not because he did not score much he made the team function. By the way check the playoffs games when his defense ability to alter shots, pass and even put up monster numbers. Letís not forget him and Odom were double double machines nightly. Not even bringing up Bynum who was viewed as the second best behind Howard. Lakers had the best front court in the league. If you add that to shaq one can argue Kobe had the best front court.
    Yeah, and let's not forget that Bynum missed the playoffs in 08 and 09 (the championship was won WITHOUT Bynum) and then in 2010 he played with a ton of injuries and had far more injuries than either Love or Kyrie. peaking of injuries, Kobe himself played through a ton of them, many of which he was supposed to have surgery for and be out for multiple months.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    they were good enough to make the playoffs with shaq injury and Kobe rape trial. Same way Lebron is 35yes old now. Well then also accept Love was and is injury prone and have a mental disorder. Kyrie also had his share of injury.
    Yeah and Odom was playing games drunk and high and had a substance abuse problems. Despite all of that, LBJ's teammates were still better. Not really sure how this is even debatable. LBJ has purposely teamed up with elite players in their primes. Kobe never did. He had shaq and he had Pau and that was it. The other guys were basically at the end of their careers and in Howard's case he was coming off of an injury and was no longer the same player.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, and let's not forget that Bynum missed the playoffs in 08 and 09 (the championship was won WITHOUT Bynum) and then in 2010 he played with a ton of injuries and had far more injuries than either Love or Kyrie. peaking of injuries, Kobe himself played through a ton of them, many of which he was supposed to have surgery for and be out for multiple months.
    and pau was a beast in the middle out playing Howard etc. just give Pau his props he was not just some guy out there and Kobe was able to win with him. His hands are all over those two rings and was a star player. Even if Kobe was the main player.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah and Odom was playing games drunk and high and had a substance abuse problems. Despite all of that, LBJ's teammates were still better. Not really sure how this is even debatable. LBJ has purposely teamed up with elite players in their primes. Kobe never did. He had shaq and he had Pau and that was it. The other guys were basically at the end of their careers and in Howard's case he was coming off of an injury and was no longer the same player.
    kobe has always had a better support system in La and learning how to win. Lebron got that in Miami from Pat and wade. Shaq was already a beast from Orlando and Phil was the best and most successful coach in the league.

    Letís look at AD a darn good player same as Towns but Making the playoffs were or are like dreams. With AD on the Lakers making th playoffs should become regular. Situations changes everything.
    Last edited by ldawg; 10-18-2019 at 12:02 PM.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    and pau was a beast in the middle out playing Howard etc. just give Pau his props he was not just some guy out there and Kobe was able to win with him. His hands are all over those two rings and was a star player. Even if Kobe was the main player.
    Dude, he wasn't a superstar. Most laker fans will tell you that (this point has already been made quite extensively over the years by many others). He was an above average all-star caliber player. That is, for all-stars, he was above average. He was never a superstar and wasn't someone you could build a team around.

  13. #133
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    Why because he did not avg over 23ppg ?

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    kobe has always had a better support system in La and learning how to win. Lebron got that in Miami from Pat and wade. Shaq was already a beast from Orlando and Phil was the best and most successful coach in the league.

    Letís look at AD a darn good player same as Towns but Making the playoffs were or are like dreams. With AD on the Lakers making th playoffs should become regular. Situations changes everything.
    I won't argue that kobe has had better coaches, but to argue that he had a better support system is quite debatable. Shaq was constantly throwing kobe under the bus to the media and so was Phil. Phil would constantly take shots at kobe in the media and kobe was basically a 21 yr old or so. Kobe had to learn to adapt his game to play alongside shaq and the triangle, whereas LBJ has never, ever really had to do that, nor has he had a dominant player like shaq basically attacking him constantly or a legendary coach like Phil doing the same. I agree that kobe was in a better position to win early on, but he was then able to have the entire team rebuilt around him showing that he could win by having the whole thing built from scratch with him as the focal point.

  15. #135
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    Well thatís funny it seem like grizzlies did as well as Lakers. Now your going to say klay Thompson ainít a star player either and needed mvp Durant.

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