Kobe vs Lebron: Who is the better player?

[ldawg]

Instead of blaming players for leaving, teams need to blame their executive office. Cavs thought the best approach to helping Bron was a what? 40 year old Shaq? It was disgraceful. After LeBron left the Cavs in 2010, nearly or above half the roster were no longer in the NBA. Mo Williams went from being an All-Star to third rotation backup PG. Players need to leave and continue doing so. Put the pressure on crappy management. Another bad management are the Knicks... Players need to leave toxic franchises.

The dude was looking at Pat Riley like kid in candy store lol. In the mean time Cavs is back to their old ways just not knowing how to build a team or just dont want to and collect the cash from the business side. Knicks tries they just dont know how to for some reason. Think two years of Lebron in NY could have turn the table or just about anyone can go there and do it?

[valade16]

Once again, you extrapolate one thing to make dog poo out of it and pretend that it's the other person's opinion.

Just because I feel, and I'm not alone here, that the NBA is soft and the quality level has fallen over the years, does not mean that I feel that EVERYTHING had the same trajectory.

There is evidence for why the NBA has turned to ****, it's not just opinion. You refuse to acknowledge this evidence and call it "progress". Suit yourself.

I love that your objection here is extrapolating your love of your childhood time period to everything beyond basketball. At least you don't even deny that you definitely do this for basketball.

It's why your unquestioned Top 3 players ever were literally drafted within 5 years of each other; because they were your childhood heroes.

Like I said: grow up and move on.

[Saddletramp]

Give me the OG Legend of Zelda over any game ever haha. That shows my age

Just played and beat this again on the Switch last weekend. Now I’ve gotta carve out some time to play the 2 quest in that original game. Groundbreaking stuff.

[NYKalltheway]

I love that your objection here is extrapolating your love of your childhood time period to everything beyond basketball. At least you don't even deny that you definitely do this for basketball.

It's why your unquestioned Top 3 players ever were literally drafted within 5 years of each other; because they were your childhood heroes.

Like I said: grow up and move on.

Once again, terrible comprehension skills and putting words into someone's mouth.

Why do you assume that Magic and Bird are my childhood heroes?

I hated Michael Jordan's guts when he was playing.

I also disliked Kobe a lot.

Lebron is a player I never really disliked nor liked. I just didn't feel much about him. I was hyped when he joined the league, the potential was there, but wasn't really feeling that this guy is anywhere close to the elite level. He was lacking so much as a player and as a presence on the court.
He lacked the 'it' factor. Tim Duncan for example seemed emotionless and plain, but he sure did have the 'it' factor. Heck, even Wade had the 'it' factor. Lebron was just a physical specimen that chose to play basketball because of his athleticism. I'm pretty sure he'd have a great NFL career as well if he opted for it. He's just not a highly skilled basketball player and that's a crucial factor for me to rate someone. Shaq was also a physical specimen but he had mad skills. Lebron just had talent in passing but even that gets overrated as it has been his only important basketball attribute for half of his career.

The fact that every time he wins people jump to claim "greatness" is what irritates me. And it's also what makes you so susceptible to media propaganda and hype.

Oh he finally got a ring, now we can compare him with X and Y (where X and Y was Kobe as his contemporary). Oh, two rings in a row, now we can say that he's on par with X and Y (where X and Y once more was Kobe, yet ironically he hadn't really surpassed teammate Dwyane Wade by that point).

Failure, failure, failure. Nobody cares. Oh, he won in 2016, he's one of the GOAT now.... Failure, failure, epic failure, oh, he won the Covid Championship. He's definitely the #2 player of all time, possibly GOAT.

There's a lot of effort to maximize the value of Lebron's wins, minimize his failure and pretend as if all other players either never existed or played in some Playmobil competition...

But your issue is with me highlighting the hypocrisy around Lebron's hype and you think that it's because "I grew up loving Bird, Magic and Jordan game". Which not only is false, it's actually ridiculous as I'm a Knicks fan and all three play for teams that every Knicks fan considered rivals. Boston? Omg... Jordan's Bulls? For real...? Lakers? You gotta be kidding me...

[ldawg]

Lebron is not skilled he’s just some guy out there running around but somehow knows the other teams plays and run a team successfully. Got to laugh at Shaq was skilled but Lebron is just a failure failure. How many rings shaq have? How many finals mvp? Do you know how much players wish they failed so bad? Don’t you see why we debate on different sides of the fence? Dude no one talks about Shaq not being able to win well into his career or later on in his career. No one talks about Mj not being able to beat bird or Detroit so why talk about Lebron failures? When each have failed at some point. What is it and who pushed that narrative? If it propelled you to greatness and if someone reached your level with no it what’s the difference? It made you do things to cost your team as much as it helped you win. Not having it did things that made your team lost but it also helped you win games. Who have the advantage and what the hell is it? Nobody seem to know what it is but yet we can say this or that person have it. What made Karl Malone, Kareem, Lebron play well at an above average age for prime players? Did or does these players have it?

[OceanSpray]

Lebron is not skilled he’s just some guy out there running around but somehow knows the other teams plays run a team successfully. Got to laugh at Shaq was skilled but Lebron is just a failure failure. How many rings shaq have? How many finals mvp? Do you know how much players wish they failed so bad? Don’t you see why we debate on different sides of the fence? Dude no one talks about Shaq not being able to win well into his career or later on in his career. No one talks about Mj not being able to beat bird or Detroit so why talk about Lebron failures? When each have failed at some point. What is it and who pushed that narrative? If it propelled you to greatness and if someone reached your level with no it what’s the difference? It made you do things to cost your team as much as it helped you win. Not having it did things that made your team lost but it also helped you win games. Who have the advantage and what the hell is it?

Man, I forgot who said it but they said LeBron just runs around bullying people. I then said that if that's the case, NFL players would dominate in the NBA. Not sure what they responded with but LeBron is not only one of the most physically gifted player, he's also one of the most mentally gifted as well. At this point of his career, he's definitely more mental than physical. Plenty of guys right now are more athletic than Bron... Zion, Russ, Giannis, etc., But none in the league has his wisdom outside of CP3 and MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE Rondo.

[ldawg]

Man, I forgot who said it but they said LeBron just runs around bullying people. I then said that if that's the case, NFL players would dominate in the NBA. Not sure what they responded with but LeBron is not only one of the most physically gifted player, he's also one of the most mentally gifted as well. At this point of his career, he's definitely more mental than physical. Plenty of guys right now are more athletic than Bron... Zion, Russ, Giannis, etc., But none in the league has his wisdom outside of CP3 and MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE Rondo.

I think people do not realize he improved after being considered a top player at a young age. Back in the day they came into the league as grown *** men and completed college level.

Yes and this was the case with skilled championship experience Kobe vs the younger athletic Lebron who did not know how to win.

[ldawg]

I guess Lebron make it look easy as if it dont take skills and hard work to win at the top level. People think a player in that shape, that condition, went to the finals so many seasons somehow don’t have it or what ever it is. He can easily retire or let his body go. How do he know the other team plays. How did you put up those numbers nightly, why did you not play when your knees hurt? Maybe because he’s just out there running around failing hard. Makes it look easy I guess. That’s putting in the time and developing skills bud. Not sure you noticed but Lebron is no longer the most athletic. Who don’t have it or whatever it is. Don’t mistake a scoring mind for having it.

[Chrisclover]

Of course lebron James look at his Statistics.


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[FinalFlash]

I think the majority consensus is LeBron has been the best player in the world since about 08. Maybe a year later.

Even the last few years. This postseason reiterated that playoff Bron is still better than anyone else.



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Kobe was widely regarded as the league's best especially when he was wrapping up #4 and #5 which was when the Jordan comparisons between himself and MJ really started to pick up traction. The 2000s was his era imo while the 2010s belonged to LBJ by a country mile.

[valade16]

Once again, terrible comprehension skills and putting words into someone's mouth.

Why do you assume that Magic and Bird are my childhood heroes?

I hated Michael Jordan's guts when he was playing.

I also disliked Kobe a lot.

Lebron is a player I never really disliked nor liked. I just didn't feel much about him. I was hyped when he joined the league, the potential was there, but wasn't really feeling that this guy is anywhere close to the elite level. He was lacking so much as a player and as a presence on the court.
He lacked the 'it' factor. Tim Duncan for example seemed emotionless and plain, but he sure did have the 'it' factor. Heck, even Wade had the 'it' factor. Lebron was just a physical specimen that chose to play basketball because of his athleticism. I'm pretty sure he'd have a great NFL career as well if he opted for it. He's just not a highly skilled basketball player and that's a crucial factor for me to rate someone. Shaq was also a physical specimen but he had mad skills. Lebron just had talent in passing but even that gets overrated as it has been his only important basketball attribute for half of his career.

The fact that every time he wins people jump to claim "greatness" is what irritates me. And it's also what makes you so susceptible to media propaganda and hype.

Oh he finally got a ring, now we can compare him with X and Y (where X and Y was Kobe as his contemporary). Oh, two rings in a row, now we can say that he's on par with X and Y (where X and Y once more was Kobe, yet ironically he hadn't really surpassed teammate Dwyane Wade by that point).

Failure, failure, failure. Nobody cares. Oh, he won in 2016, he's one of the GOAT now.... Failure, failure, epic failure, oh, he won the Covid Championship. He's definitely the #2 player of all time, possibly GOAT.

There's a lot of effort to maximize the value of Lebron's wins, minimize his failure and pretend as if all other players either never existed or played in some Playmobil competition...

But your issue is with me highlighting the hypocrisy around Lebron's hype and you think that it's because "I grew up loving Bird, Magic and Jordan game". Which not only is false, it's actually ridiculous as I'm a Knicks fan and all three play for teams that every Knicks fan considered rivals. Boston? Omg... Jordan's Bulls? For real...? Lakers? You gotta be kidding me...

You don't expect anyone to believe that do you

Everyone here knows how much you hate LeBron. There'd be more honor in admitting it.


But based on what you said (and what you didn't) I absolutely nailed that you grew up watching Jordan, Bird and Magic as a kid. Which was my point: you think everything that happened during your childhood was the best.

It's why you think Bron sucks compared to the best players of your childhood, and it's why you think the NBA sucks compared to the NBA of your childhood. It's why you, with a straight face, claim that Dominique Wilkins is better and more skilled than LeBron.


I nailed it. I know you, and honestly? It's pathetic. You need to let go of the hate in your heart and grow up. Just because something is new doesn't make it bad.

[FinalFlash]

The good looks come off of the defense paying attention to the other guy. It's also a little strange that your criticizing kobe on that shot. That was the design of the play with only a few seconds to go. What you're not getting is that the entire defense is waiting to converge on kobe in that situation, that makes players a step slow in reacting to other guys and that's the difference between Artest getting the put back for the win and not. Look at how hard those two defenders contest that shot. If you look closely, there is a third guy (#3) who actually is chasing kobe as well and that is what opens the lane for Artest. If #3 goes to box out Artest doesn't get the rebound or at the very least it would've been a contested put back attempt. That video is actually an excellent example of how Kobe impacts the game even on a miss. If anyone else besides maybe MJ or Bird take that shot, it's unlikely Artest gets in there like that. One shot, three guys sucked in and an easy uncontested put back for the win. That's the effect Kobe's presence had. Artest made that shot, but it was all created by Kobe being on the floor and being the threat that he is.

Solid point. Kobe collapses the defense in his own way. You don't double or triple team him then chances are he annihilates you. You do, and suddenly everything opens up on the floor for his teammates.

Personally, I've always felt that if Kobe had better decision-making then he would've been in the same convo as MJ because that likely would've lead to 1 or 2 more titles for him throughout his career.

His prime 15 years he was 27, 5, and 5 on 45-46% shooting but I can't help feel that his ego had a slightly adverse affect on his career numbers-wise and even championship-wise. The man slightly underachieved in my eyes despite being one of the 5 greatest players ever.

[NYKalltheway]

You don't expect anyone to believe that do you

Everyone here knows how much you hate LeBron. There'd be more honor in admitting it.


But based on what you said (and what you didn't) I absolutely nailed that you grew up watching Jordan, Bird and Magic as a kid. Which was my point: you think everything that happened during your childhood was the best.

It's why you think Bron sucks compared to the best players of your childhood, and it's why you think the NBA sucks compared to the NBA of your childhood. It's why you, with a straight face, claim that Dominique Wilkins is better and more skilled than LeBron.


I nailed it. I know you, and honestly? It's pathetic. You need to let go of the hate in your heart and grow up. Just because something is new doesn't make it bad.

Dude, I signed up on PSD because I was hyped by the prospect of Lebron James playing for the Knicks in that 2010 off season... I always felt he was overrated but at the same time he was the easiest way out of irrelevance for the Knicks.

I never hated the guy, had to reason for it. I just started feeling sorry for the guy that everyone expected him to be someone like Michael Jordan when it was obvious that he couldn't even be Kobe Bryant.

The problem you have with Lebron is that you view him in a religious fashion. He was supposed to be the messiah, the new prophet or whatever. He didn't reach those standards but because he didn't completely break down over the years as other "messiahs", like Iverson, Hill, Penny, Tmac, Carter or even guys who never amounted to much like Miner or McCants, you somehow feel that every little accomplishment is like pouring cement to his "greatness" status. No one ever denied that Lebron is a great player, but he's not as great as you make him out to be.

Every little thing is exaggerated, every failure is reduced to a minor obstacle. Lebron fans are a cult and you won't stop until you convert everyone into believing that Lebron is the ultimate GOAT challenger and a locked #2 behind MJ. Though the truthers of this cult actually started calling Lebron the GOAT even since before 2016, another branch of this cult somehow called him the GOAT in 2016 while the rest are just looking at some stats or Laker championships just so that they can finally announce him as GOAT. Which is inevitable. People who stopped believing this garbage do not rate Lebron as high. I can get by people who have him in their top 10 because his longevity and sustaining that level is remarkable, but I pay attention to a lot of things when I consider who my top 10 guys are and Lebron falls short on a lot of parameters.

The best NBA was in my childhood you say? Bull crap.
The best NBA was in the early 2000s.
The best players played in the 80s and 90s.
The modern NBA (at least the second half of the 2010s and on) is just a reenactment of the ABA, with more spotlight.

Now onto facts:
The NBA from 2005 till 2015 was decreasing its level of play after that ridiculous rules change that developed into this "no look defense" systems.
From 2016 and on, it's not even basketball in some cases. The Regular Season was always a trashier version of the Playoffs in the previous decade, but the last 4 editions was just a stupid excuse to pad stats for players and now we even have this "load (of ********) management" that makes it even more irrelevant.

The competitiveness of the league has dropped significantly when comparing older eras, the competitiveness of the Eastern Conference during Lebron's prime has been at its worst of any NBA generation.
And anyone with a set of eyes and access to the internet, not even memory is needed here, can tell that the league has gone ultra soft and it keeps getting softer as we go.

But sure, this is because "I hate Lebron". Just like when you tell a religious person that what he feels MAY NOT be the truth, he'll call you an imbecile that "hates religion", let alone if you actually dismiss their claim. Then they're calling for your head.


The irony here is that back when I signed up, there was a huge Kobe cult as well that I had numerous arguments with. Their cult has become less vocal these days. It's the Lebron cult dominance era now. In 5 years maybe Durant wins 4 rings and we have a new cult claiming that he's the GOAT, who knows... But there's always some cult here that's usually fueled by the media. And Lebron controls the media much more than Kobe ever cared for and he has that mindset that he has to be compared to Michael Jordan at all costs, otherwise he'll start whining again.

[More-Than-Most]

Dude, I signed up on PSD because I was hyped by the prospect of Lebron James playing for the Knicks in that 2010 off season... I always felt he was overrated but at the same time he was the easiest way out of irrelevance for the Knicks.

I never hated the guy, had to reason for it. I just started feeling sorry for the guy that everyone expected him to be someone like Michael Jordan when it was obvious that he couldn't even be Kobe Bryant.

The problem you have with Lebron is that you view him in a religious fashion. He was supposed to be the messiah, the new prophet or whatever. He didn't reach those standards but because he didn't completely break down over the years as other "messiahs", like Iverson, Hill, Penny, Tmac, Carter or even guys who never amounted to much like Miner or McCants, you somehow feel that every little accomplishment is like pouring cement to his "greatness" status. No one ever denied that Lebron is a great player, but he's not as great as you make him out to be.

Every little thing is exaggerated, every failure is reduced to a minor obstacle. Lebron fans are a cult and you won't stop until you convert everyone into believing that Lebron is the ultimate GOAT challenger and a locked #2 behind MJ. Though the truthers of this cult actually started calling Lebron the GOAT even since before 2016, another branch of this cult somehow called him the GOAT in 2016 while the rest are just looking at some stats or Laker championships just so that they can finally announce him as GOAT. Which is inevitable. People who stopped believing this garbage do not rate Lebron as high. I can get by people who have him in their top 10 because his longevity and sustaining that level is remarkable, but I pay attention to a lot of things when I consider who my top 10 guys are and Lebron falls short on a lot of parameters.

The best NBA was in my childhood you say? Bull crap.
The best NBA was in the early 2000s.
The best players played in the 80s and 90s.
The modern NBA (at least the second half of the 2010s and on) is just a reenactment of the ABA, with more spotlight.

Now onto facts:
The NBA from 2005 till 2015 was decreasing its level of play after that ridiculous rules change that developed into this "no look defense" systems.
From 2016 and on, it's not even basketball in some cases. The Regular Season was always a trashier version of the Playoffs in the previous decade, but the last 4 editions was just a stupid excuse to pad stats for players and now we even have this "load (of ********) management" that makes it even more irrelevant.

The competitiveness of the league has dropped significantly when comparing older eras, the competitiveness of the Eastern Conference during Lebron's prime has been at its worst of any NBA generation.
And anyone with a set of eyes and access to the internet, not even memory is needed here, can tell that the league has gone ultra soft and it keeps getting softer as we go.

But sure, this is because "I hate Lebron". Just like when you tell a religious person that what he feels MAY NOT be the truth, he'll call you an imbecile that "hates religion", let alone if you actually dismiss their claim. Then they're calling for your head.


The irony here is that back when I signed up, there was a huge Kobe cult as well that I had numerous arguments with. Their cult has become less vocal these days. It's the Lebron cult dominance era now. In 5 years maybe Durant wins 4 rings and we have a new cult claiming that he's the GOAT, who knows... But there's always some cult here that's usually fueled by the media. And Lebron controls the media much more than Kobe ever cared for and he has that mindset that he has to be compared to Michael Jordan at all costs, otherwise he'll start whining again.

So basically you wanted him on the knicks and when he said pass and went and made his own super team you got pissed and hated him for finally having something that kobe and Jordan had the luxury of for most of their years unlike lebron.... The rest of this post is so hilariously awful and bias out of hate of both lebron and the modern NBA that you honestly should just give up on the sport at this point.

[valade16]

So basically you wanted him on the knicks and when he said pass and went and made his own super team you got pissed and hated him for finally having something that kobe and Jordan had the luxury of for most of their years unlike lebron.... The rest of this post is so hilariously awful and bias out of hate of both lebron and the modern NBA that you honestly should just give up on the sport at this point.

Exactly

Yet another substance-less "back in my day!" diatribe from the resident old many yelling at the NBA from his front porch.