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  1. #6751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    I was responding to a post that mentioned a 5 game series. Also those are the only 2 teams for James. If Jordan himself got swept then itís not the worst thing to happen to a player.

    In fact Kobe only getting swept 3 times is impressive if we compare him to Jordan. Kobe has eliminated more 50+ win teams then Jordan. Only 3 teams in history have beaten four 50+ win team in a single playoffs. Dream was on one team and Kobe was on the other 3 teams. 6 Goats in the top 15 all time also played in the western conference from Kobeís rookie season to his last season.

    So only getting swept 3 times in the toughest conference in the history of the game raises Kobeís legacy.
    Lebron has eliminated more 70 win teams than all of the top 15 all time combined, so that raises Lebrons Legacy
    YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!!!!!

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  2. #6752
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    Lebron has eliminated more 70 win teams than all of the top 15 all time combined, so that raises Lebrons Legacy
    Yes it does.

  3. #6753
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    https://clutchpoints.com/lakers-how-...-won-together/

    Did Kobe and Shaq under achieve or did they maximize the pairing.
    Last edited by ldawg; 07-03-2020 at 10:06 PM.

  4. #6754
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    https://clutchpoints.com/lakers-how-...-won-together/

    Did Kobe and Shaq under achieve or did they maximize the pairing.
    It depends where you ranked them. If you believe Shaq is not the clear cut #1 big all time then heís a overachiever. If you believe Kobe is ranked out of the top 10 and closer to 14 all time GOATís then he extremely overachieved as a 17 year old kid.

    If you ranked Shaq #1 big man all time and Kobe top 3 all time then you can mention it as underachieving. The most dominant player ever. The youngest championship winning
    superstar ever. Labels they had at the time. Not becoming perfect is a example of underachieving with those labels.

    Thatís me keeping it simple.

  5. #6755
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    Here is some more context.

    By age 23 Jordan had 1 playoff win total. Kobe by age 23 he had 3 championship rings.

  6. #6756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    It depends where you ranked them. If you believe Shaq is not the clear cut #1 big all time then heís a overachiever. If you believe Kobe is ranked out of the top 10 and closer to 14 all time GOATís then he extremely overachieved as a 17 year old kid.

    If you ranked Shaq #1 big man all time and Kobe top 3 all time then you can mention it as underachieving. The most dominant player ever. The youngest championship winning
    superstar ever. Labels they had at the time. Not becoming perfect is a example of underachieving with those labels.

    Thatís me keeping it simple.
    Great point. I have them both in my top 10 of all-time so I think they could have won another championship. 2004 is the obvious season but to me it is more frustrating that they couldn't make it work and stay together. The fact that Shaq had to go to Miami and win with Wade while Kobe had to win with Gasol (lesser sidekicks) proves that they underachieved imo.


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  7. #6757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    Here is some more context.

    By age 23 Jordan had 1 playoff win total. Kobe by age 23 he had 3 championship rings.
    Kobe entered the league at 18 with Shaq on his team. Jordan came into the league at 21 with absolutely no one.

    Your context is lacking context.

  8. #6758
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Great point. I have them both in my top 10 of all-time so I think they could have won another championship. 2004 is the obvious season but to me it is more frustrating that they couldn't make it work and stay together. The fact that Shaq had to go to Miami and win with Wade while Kobe had to win with Gasol (lesser sidekicks) proves that they underachieved imo.
    You give a 26 year old Kobe, Wade and Lakers are back to winning championships from 05 and beyond. Itís basically what James and Wade where in Miami but on steroids. Seeing what Kobe did to the Spurs in 2004 Playoffs, I donít see why 2005 would make a difference. Even tho Spurs won the championship that year.

    The 2004 Lakers 3rd best player was a 41 year old Karl Malone. Kobe and Shaq alone ate through the West and just beat each other in the end. Kobe and second year and 23 years old Wade would dominate the league. Wouldnít of been fair. Malone could even come back as the number 3 player.

  9. #6759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    You give a 26 year old Kobe, Wade and Lakers are back to winning championships from 05 and beyond. Itís basically what James and Wade where in Miami but on steroids. Seeing what Kobe did to the Spurs in 2004 Playoffs, I donít see why 2005 would make a difference. Even tho Spurs won the championship that year.

    The 2004 Lakers 3rd best player was a 41 year old Karl Malone. Kobe and Shaq alone ate through the West and just beat each other in the end. Kobe and second year and 23 years old Wade would dominate the league. Wouldnít of been fair. Malone could even come back as the number 3 player.
    Kobe would eventually grow to hate another star producing at a higher rate and having the ball more than him, especially if its young Wade and not the declining one Bron got.

    lol, malone came to la cuz of 1 guy, the guy who actually made the team a contender with or without the guy who couldn't lead a team. him n kobe didn't even get along its why he retired whereas gp eventually went back to Shaq

  10. #6760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Kobe would eventually grow to hate another star producing at a higher rate and having the ball more than him, especially if its young Wade and not the declining one Bron got.

    lol, malone came to la cuz of 1 guy, the guy who actually made the team a contender with or without the guy who couldn't lead a team. him n kobe didn't even get along its why he retired whereas gp eventually went back to Shaq
    I was making a point that even a 42 year old player could of been the 3 best player if you have Kobe and Wade. Wade in 2005 went to the East finals game 7 and a finals MVP in 2006. You give that same Wade with Kobe and Lakers are destroying the league.

    Lakers would of been fine if Malone wanted to leave. They still go on to win 4 Rings all before Lebron shakes up the NBA. Maybe joins the Lakers?

    I mean I am telling the truth here. If Kobe had Shaq's level of #2 championship teammates then Kobeís career would of ended with many more Championship. All before 34 and the achilles.

  11. #6761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    I was making a point that even a 42 year old player could of been the 3 best player if you have Kobe and Wade. Wade in 2005 went to the East finals game 7 and a finals MVP in 2006. You give that same Wade with Kobe and Lakers are destroying the league.

    Lakers would of been fine if Malone wanted to leave. They still go on to win 4 Rings all before Lebron shakes up the NBA. Maybe joins the Lakers?

    I mean I am telling the truth here. If Kobe had Shaq's level of #2 championship teammates then Kobeís career would of ended with many more Championship. All before 34 and the achilles.
    when Shaq left he was still the superior player so I doubt wade would have more success with the inferior player who's game wouldn't have meshed as well. once kobe caught up to wade then maybe

  12. #6762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    I was making a point that even a 42 year old player could of been the 3 best player if you have Kobe and Wade. Wade in 2005 went to the East finals game 7 and a finals MVP in 2006. You give that same Wade with Kobe and Lakers are destroying the league.

    Lakers would of been fine if Malone wanted to leave. They still go on to win 4 Rings all before Lebron shakes up the NBA. Maybe joins the Lakers?

    I mean I am telling the truth here. If Kobe had Shaq's level of #2 championship teammates then Kobeís career would of ended with many more Championship. All before 34 and the achilles.
    I dont think so. The Lakers oganization, Phil, and the vets played a role in developing Kobe into championship type player. Shaq also delayed him from being the focal point of defenses plus he was not the leader type early on. As one can see it have a number of good players but all dont win rings. MJ, Shaq, Lebron, Wade, just the top of my head all had to learn how to win even if they were Dominant in their own way. No way to tell but Because of fit my opinion is Kobe and wade would not have been a great fit. I think we saw that in Tmac/Carter Westbrook/Durant tring to duplicate MJ/Pippen and it did not work to that extent. Kobe, Wade are all MJ clones none were like Pippen. Pippen fit well with MJ because he did not have a scoring mentality. We are seeing the same with Westbrook and Harden. With the right coach in the right system i can see them winning a ring or 2 but i dont see them dominating like MJ/Pippen did. On surface it looks good you get two skilled guards but they take away from each other not really complement each other. People dont think this but Shaq kept Kobe from getting banged up early. Over Kobe career he dealt with some injuries. Trying to go to the cup on every play would have taking a toll just like it did Wade and D Rose. Would Kobe let Wade play point?
    Last edited by ldawg; 07-08-2020 at 12:02 AM.

  13. #6763
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    Kobe and Wade canít work? Thatís like saying Jordan can't win with Lebron because look at what happened when Lebron had a Jordan clone in Wade. They lost by 70 points to the Spurs in the finals. So because of fit Jordan and Lebron wouldnít have worked. If you believe that then I can see you believing Kobe and Wade not working.

    I on the other hand believe a GOAT player teaming up with a GOAT player is the absolute easiest way to win.

  14. #6764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    Kobe and Wade canít work? Thatís like saying Jordan can't win with Lebron because look at what happened when Lebron had a Jordan clone in Wade. They lost by 70 points to the Spurs in the finals. So because of fit Jordan and Lebron wouldnít have worked. If you believe that then I can see you believing Kobe and Wade not working.

    I on the other hand believe a GOAT player teaming up with a GOAT player is the absolute easiest way to win.
    Not saying they cant work together. saying they wont be the perfect match. Lebron is not a Jordan clone. Lebron is more compared to Magic, Bird, Pippen before hes compared to MJ. Wade and Lebron was not a great fit either neither were great shooters at the time and both wanted to get to the cup. This is why many questioned if they were going to win. But heat surounded them with shooters and bosh being a shooting big worked.

    Two goat players teamimg up is not a sure or the absolute easiest way. I will argue Durant Ibaka and Weskbrook were better than Curry Klay green but Gsw and their system fit better. Not that they were goat but may have been more talented. Then on top of that you said two goat lost to Spurs by 70.

    We got a glimps of Kobe and Wade on team USA. If kobe did not want to play in Shaq shadow why will he in Wade Shadow to play the Pippen role?
    Last edited by ldawg; 07-06-2020 at 01:15 AM.

  15. #6765
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    The only clear aspect of the game that Kobe is/was more prolific than LeBron is his ........? Can't think of anything tbh, sorry, Kobe lovers. Although, he was a great/legend.

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