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  1. #6031
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Thatís parity competition reflects how important games are to players and how hard they play. When theses teams that regularly faced off in the playoffs meet one another in the regular season those games were events. Micheal Jordan wasnít taking a ďload mgtĒ day when the Bulls were going to face the Knicks in 93. It was unthinkable. Teams played harder. Teams disliked one another more. Physicality plays into this as well. Itís just fact. Rivalries and regular season games meant a lot more before the LeBrons and KDs made it ok to be total mercenaries and before load mgt etc
    But this is only true of the regular season. It is unthinkable for a player to take a load management game off in The playoffs today.

    So we have to ask ourselves why are teams (because itís not just players) deciding to not put as much effort into the regular season. The answer is the same as itís been for most changes: analytics and information. Teams have looked at the results and found its better to not wear out your players in the regular season so they can be better during the playoffs. The regular season is primarily important for you to make the playoffs and to get home court, but teams are deciding (right or wrong) having fresher star players is more important than home court. Consider a huge proponent of load management and rest days is Greg Popovich for Tim Duncan. Does anyone honestly think Pop and Duncan are not competitive because they took days off in the regular season?

    Do you think any players would be taking load management days if the NBA changed the rules to eliminate the playoffs and said the team with the best record wins the title? I doubt it.

  2. #6032
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    This concept is not restricted to load management and rest days. Top Players would routinely average 40+ MPG in the 90ís, but today the most played players top out at 37 MPG.

    Do people think that players today are less conditioned or have less stamina? Are coaches not as competitive or don't care as much today to not play their star players? No, itís because theyíve found too many minutes wears out the plays and degrades their performance.

    The idea that these changes are because stars donít care anymore is ridiculous. Especially because in general the same people who say the stars today donít care about winning and then complain that those stars cared so much about winning they stacked their teams to win. Well, which is it?

  3. #6033
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This concept is not restricted to load management and rest days. Top Players would routinely average 40+ MPG in the 90ís, but today the most played players top out at 37 MPG.

    Do people think that players today are less conditioned or have less stamina? Are coaches not as competitive or don't care as much today to not play their star players? No, itís because theyíve found too many minutes wears out the plays and degrades their performance.

    The idea that these changes are because stars donít care anymore is ridiculous. Especially because in general the same people who say the stars today donít care about winning and then complain that those stars cared so much about winning they stacked their teams to win. Well, which is it?
    Only thing changed is the name on the Jersey.

  4. #6034
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Still trying to figure out why back in the day if it was so competive why the teams got roughly the same number of wins and why thier team win majority of the time with less teams. Are you guys certain like today your not caught up on the Names of the players on those teams. back then is was basically Celtic and Lakers sprinkled with Detroit. Then You Had Bulls dominating a whole decade. Where is all this stiff competition you guys keep speaking of. What teams were so good that they had to face.
    I'm not talking about the competition level, my complaint is the actual level of play today is bad, as in the teams can't execute and it's mostly very sloppy basketball. It's the worst I've ever seen since I started watching and it makes me enjoy the game significantly less.

  5. #6035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I'm not talking about the competition level, my complaint is the actual level of play today is bad, as in the teams can't execute and it's mostly very sloppy basketball. It's the worst I've ever seen since I started watching and it makes me enjoy the game significantly less.
    This is usually what all the nostalgic old timers say, but do you actually have any proof of this?

    One quick stat that by no means tells the full story but does given an idea as to the level of mistakes or how careless teams are being with the ball is turnovers.

    Whatís interesting is teams are turning the ball over less today than before. The worst teams the last 2 seasons averaged 17 turnovers. In 86 and 96 the worst teams were averaging over 20.

    The 96 Bulls were at 14.3
    The 86 Celtics were at 16.6
    The 87 Lakers were at 16.6

    The 17 Warriors were at 14.8
    The 13 Heat were at 13.9


    So in terms of turning the ball over, it was most definitely sloppier play back then. So do you have any evidence to back up your belief?

  6. #6036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I'm not talking about the competition level, my complaint is the actual level of play today is bad, as in the teams can't execute and it's mostly very sloppy basketball. It's the worst I've ever seen since I started watching and it makes me enjoy the game significantly less.
    Well You got some teams trying to win and some tanking. On Xmas, Sundays etc Lakers will not Play Suns but instead play Clippers. That is not a low level of play game. I also think your trying to campare it to old school ball where you find the big man posting with players cutting to the basket or heavy pick and role. Today game is different they are running plays from the outside vs inside like back in the day. Back in the day they utilized a smaller space of the floor. Today the court is bigger not physically bigger but spread they use more space on the court. So if you looking for old school ball you wont find it as much and unless a special big man is draft. it may seem ragged running up and down.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-09-2020 at 12:12 AM.

  7. #6037
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    Kenny Smith has mentioned multiple times how Hakeem would say ďI only have to try 6 times a year. When I face Shaq, Ewing, Or Robinson. Other than thatĒ

    Does anyone here question his competitive spirit because he would coast in the regular season?

  8. #6038
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Kenny Smith has mentioned multiple times how Hakeem would say ďI only have to try 6 times a year. When I face Shaq, Ewing, Or Robinson. Other than thatĒ

    Does anyone here question his competitive spirit because he would coast in the regular season?
    Yes


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  9. #6039
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Yes
    At least youíre consistent.

  10. #6040
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    But this is only true of the regular season. It is unthinkable for a player to take a load management game off in The playoffs today.

    So we have to ask ourselves why are teams (because itís not just players) deciding to not put as much effort into the regular season. The answer is the same as itís been for most changes: analytics and information. Teams have looked at the results and found its better to not wear out your players in the regular season so they can be better during the playoffs. The regular season is primarily important for you to make the playoffs and to get home court, but teams are deciding (right or wrong) having fresher star players is more important than home court. Consider a huge proponent of load management and rest days is Greg Popovich for Tim Duncan. Does anyone honestly think Pop and Duncan are not competitive because they took days off in the regular season?

    Do you think any players would be taking load management days if the NBA changed the rules to eliminate the playoffs and said the team with the best record wins the title? I doubt it.
    so there are more nerds who say itís not optimal to play hard every night. I agree.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  11. #6041
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    so there are more nerds who say itís not optimal to play hard every night. I agree.
    No, the nerds are saying itís not optimal to play every night, a slight but very important distinction.

  12. #6042
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    Kobe vs Lebron: Who is the better player?

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No, the nerds are saying itís not optimal to play every night, a slight but very important distinction.
    But your a nerd and you just defended Hakeem for not playing hard most nights. He didnít but wasnt as much the norm then. Today it is. No one cares about the regular season and the product is worse as a result


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  13. #6043
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    But your a nerd and you just defended Hakeem for not playing hard most nights. He didnít but wasnt as much the norm then. Today it is. No one cares about the regular season and the product is worse as a result
    Never defended him not playing hard, I asked a question. I very much doubt most people in NBA history would say that Hakeem wasnít competitive or didnít want to win, despite him coasting during the season.

    I agree the regular season product is worse because top players realized historically, nobody cares if you win a lot in the regular season. Organizationally, teams realized the regular season isnít tied into the playoffs/championships as much as previously believed.

    In terms of tenor, we as fans helped bring this on. When people talk about the 73-9 Warriors, itís ďwho cares about their regular season record because they didnít win a titleĒ. Well, you reap what you sow. If you constantly go around saying ďwho cares about the regular season?Ē Eventually the players are going to stop caring about it too.

    If you want to increase the competitiveness of the regular season, either the league needs to change the rules to place greater importance on it, or we as fans need to start acting like it has enduring value to be good in the regular season.

  14. #6044
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This is usually what all the nostalgic old timers say, but do you actually have any proof of this?

    One quick stat that by no means tells the full story but does given an idea as to the level of mistakes or how careless teams are being with the ball is turnovers.

    Whatís interesting is teams are turning the ball over less today than before. The worst teams the last 2 seasons averaged 17 turnovers. In 86 and 96 the worst teams were averaging over 20.

    The 96 Bulls were at 14.3
    The 86 Celtics were at 16.6
    The 87 Lakers were at 16.6

    The 17 Warriors were at 14.8
    The 13 Heat were at 13.9


    So in terms of turning the ball over, it was most definitely sloppier play back then. So do you have any evidence to back up your belief?
    Well I don't really need evidence to back up my statement that watching the game today is somewhat boring due to what I perceive to be a very low quality of play. It's me reporting that I no longer find the games all that enjoyable and that the WNBA and college basketball games are often more enjoyable to watch for me than current NBA games (note also that I'm not just referring to turnovers as sloppy play, but also broken plays, and generally poor execution).

    Although I agree that turnovers can be a decent gauge of sloppiness of play, to make this kind of comparison across the years we need to account for pace of play as well as the differences in the defensive rules. I would also think that the different types of turnovers would be relevant here (forced turnovers due to good defense (which I wouldn't always consider sloppy play) vs. unforced turnovers (where I would usually consider these sloppy plays)).

  15. #6045
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Well You got some teams trying to win and some tanking. On Xmas, Sundays etc Lakers will not Play Suns but instead play Clippers. That is not a low level of play game. I also think your trying to campare it to old school ball where you find the big man posting with players cutting to the basket or heavy pick and role. Today game is different they are running plays from the outside vs inside like back in the day. Back in the day they utilized a smaller space of the floor. Today the court is bigger not physically bigger but spread they use more space on the court. So if you looking for old school ball you wont find it as much and unless a special big man is draft. it may seem ragged running up and down.
    I just don't really find it enjoyable to watch a lot of isolation basketball with minimal ball movement and or teams shooting 30-plus 3s a game. That's how the game is played at a rec center or local gym. I don't find that all that enjoyable to watch.

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