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  1. #5986
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    LeBron better than Jordan? Sorry, no.
    Nice, I agree. 10/10 argument.

    LeBron's a better passer.
    LeBron's a better rebounder.
    LeBron's a better athlete.
    LeBron's a more versatile defender.

    So in terms of pure basketball ability, LeBron is simply the more complete basketball player. If you're telling me if it would be easier to find the next LeBron or Jordan, it's going to be much more difficult for the next LeBron to show up. That type of longevity and basketball smarts while being elite at every facet of the game (other than FT shooting and 3 point shooting) will be something that may never be seen again. Kobe was nearly identical to Jordan because Jordan was primarily a scorer. LeBron is everything on the basketball court.

  2. #5987
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    Simplifying the GOAT by saying he was "primarily a scorer." Yikes.

    Like he didn't lock guys up. Like he didn't swoop up and make super human help defense plays. Like he didn't win a DPOY. Like he didn't destroy himself for offensive boards to win playoff games. Like he didn't know how to get his teammates involved when it was the smart move. Like he didn't know how to play every spot in the triangle to perfection.

    "primarily a scorer" though.


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  3. #5988
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Simplifying the GOAT by saying he was "primarily a scorer." Yikes.

    Like he didn't lock guys up. Like he didn't swoop up and make super human help defense plays. Like he didn't win a DPOY. Like he didn't destroy himself for offensive boards to win playoff games. Like he didn't know how to get his teammates involved when it was the smart move. Like he didn't know how to play every spot in the triangle to perfection.

    "primarily a scorer" though.
    Primarily = mainly. Jordan was mainly a scorer. Do you have any evidence otherwise? When he gets on the court, you don't expect 8 rebounds or 8 assists from Jordan. You expect him to score the ball. Same as KD. Do you expect him to give you an all-around dominating game? Nope. You expect him to destroy you by scoring the ball at a rate you can't stop. There is nothing wrong with what I said. You're just looking for dialogue. When people compare Kobe and Jordan, they compare their offensive talent and how they score the ball. Thus, why I stated that Jordan was mainly a scorer because that's how he dominated games.

  4. #5989
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Primarily = mainly. Jordan was mainly a scorer. Do you have any evidence otherwise? When he gets on the court, you don't expect 8 rebounds or 8 assists from Jordan. You expect him to score the ball. Same as KD. Do you expect him to give you an all-around dominating game? Nope. You expect him to destroy you by scoring the ball at a rate you can't stop. There is nothing wrong with what I said. You're just looking for dialogue. When people compare Kobe and Jordan, they compare their offensive talent and how they score the ball. Thus, why I stated that Jordan was mainly a scorer because that's how he dominated games.

    When Jordan steps on the court, you expect him to win.

    When Lebron steps on the court, that's not even one of the parameters, especially during big games... We used to expect him to win but he couldn't live up to this, so we reduced our expectationts to a box score fulfillment that only ignorant people think is what matters.

    Kobe's comparisons to Jordan have merit when it comes to footwork, post moves, drive and mentality. When it comes to scoring and shot selection, Kobe was lacking. So no, you cannot compare Kobe and Jordan as scorers, at least directly.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 06-05-2020 at 04:17 PM.

  5. #5990
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    *40
    Malone was a 13/8 guy at 40 (20/8 the previous year), Payton was 14/5 (20/8 the previous year). Obviously they werent the players they once were, but they werent scrubs by any means. 13/8 and 14/5 are very capable stats for a teams 3rd and 4th options regardless of age.
    Maybe you missed the part about Malone being hurt and not belonging on the court? Yeah, that was probably it (this has been well documented, so either you're ignoring it or didn't know about it, but it's certainly not debatable at this point). Payton also became completely ineffective during the playoffs to the point where he wasn't even a capable rotation player during the finals. Payton later acknowledged that he felt completely lost and lost all of his confidence playing in Phil's triangle offense. The 3rd and 4th options during those finals were Fisher and George, who averaged a whopping combined 6 pts per game on about 35% shooting. If Malone was healthy, that series likely ends a lot differently, but that lakers team didn't have much depth and they couldn't overcome the injury to Malone.

  6. #5991
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Nice, I agree. 10/10 argument.

    LeBron's a better passer.
    LeBron's a better rebounder.
    LeBron's a better athlete.
    LeBron's a more versatile defender.

    So in terms of pure basketball ability, LeBron is simply the more complete basketball player. If you're telling me if it would be easier to find the next LeBron or Jordan, it's going to be much more difficult for the next LeBron to show up. That type of longevity and basketball smarts while being elite at every facet of the game (other than FT shooting and 3 point shooting) will be something that may never be seen again. Kobe was nearly identical to Jordan because Jordan was primarily a scorer. LeBron is everything on the basketball court.
    Oh boy...this basically confirms the absurd pro LBJ sentiment in this thread. LBJ is a more skilled passer than MJ and marginally a better rebounder. He pales, and this is an understatement, in comparison to MJ as a defender. Also, not really sure where you're getting that LBJ was a better athlete, MJ was much faster, quicker, more agile, more explosive, and jumped considerably higher than LBJ. LBJ is likely stronger, but that's the only area that I think he would have an athletic advantage over MJ. LBJ is probably better at getting to the rim, but that is where it ends. MJ is a vastly superior shooter, better ball handler, insanely better footwork in the post, off the dribble, and off the ball. MJ is insanely better off the ball, has better moves off the dribble, better moves in the post, and better moves off the ball. MJ has a far wider array of shots that he can hit and is much better at picking apart defenses and getting to his spots (all these skills also apply to Kobe over LBJ).

    The fact that anyone would come in here and try to make this argument is beyond absurd. If you want to make an argument that LBJ has a better athleticism to body/size ratio than MJ then fine, but no one in their right mind would ever try to argue that from a pure basketball ability perspective LBJ is better. Not only is that kind of argument silly, it's silly to put him up against Kobe in that type of comparison, along with several other players (e.g., Bird, KD). LBJ's not a particularly skilled player. He has great athleticism and size and is able to handle the ball, is a very skilled passer, and is an excellent decision maker. However if you put LBJ in Kobe's body, he's probably not in the top 50 all-time (might not be in the top 100 all-time).
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-05-2020 at 05:11 PM.

  7. #5992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Oh boy...this basically confirms the absurd pro LBJ sentiment in this thread. LBJ is a more skilled passer than MJ and marginally a better rebounder. That is where it ends. He pales, and this is an understatement, in comparison to MJ as a defender. Also, not really sure where you're getting that LBJ was a better athlete, MJ was much faster, quicker, more agile, more explosive, and jumped considerably higher than LBJ. LBJ is likely stronger, but that's the only area that I think he would have an athletic advantage over MJ. LBJ is probably better at getting to the rim, but that is where it ends. MJ is a vastly superior shooter, better ball handler, insanely better footwork in the post, off the dribble, and off the ball. MJ is insanely better off the ball, has better moves off the dribble, better moves in the post, and better moves off the ball. MJ has a far wider array of shots that he can hit and is much better at picking apart defenses and getting to his spots (all these skills also apply to Kobe over LBJ).

    The fact that anyone one come in here and try to make this argument is beyond absurd. If you want to make an argument that LBJ has a better athleticism to body/size ratio than MJ then fine, but no one in their right mind would ever try to argue that from a pure basketball ability LBJ is better. Not only is that kind of argument silly, it's silly to put him up against Kobe in that type of comparison, along with several other players (e.g., Bird, KD). LBJ's not a particularly skilled player. He has great athleticism and size and is able to handle the ball is a very skilled passer, and is an excellent decision maker with the ball. If you put LBJ in Kobe's body, he's probably not in the top 50 all-time (might not be in the top 100 all-time).
    Please stop responding to me. I gave up when you claimed that Julius Erving is on the same level as LeBron. You are a clown. Everyone sees you as such here so I see no reason to waste further time with clownish behavior from a clownish individual.

  8. #5993
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Please stop responding to me. I gave up when you claimed that Julius Erving is on the same level as LeBron. You are a clown. Everyone sees you as such here so I see no reason to waste further time with clownish behavior from a clownish individual.
    Umm, wrong poster. I never claimed Julius Erving was on the same level as LBJ and actually I'm not sure I've referenced him in quite some time. Either way, someone needed to respond to this kind of outlandish statement. No need to respond back though (not much you can say to such a crazy argument).

  9. #5994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Oh boy...this basically confirms the absurd pro LBJ sentiment in this thread. LBJ is a more skilled passer than MJ and marginally a better rebounder. He pales, and this is an understatement, in comparison to MJ as a defender. Also, not really sure where you're getting that LBJ was a better athlete, MJ was much faster, quicker, more agile, more explosive, and jumped considerably higher than LBJ. LBJ is likely stronger, but that's the only area that I think he would have an athletic advantage over MJ. LBJ is probably better at getting to the rim, but that is where it ends. MJ is a vastly superior shooter, better ball handler, insanely better footwork in the post, off the dribble, and off the ball. MJ is insanely better off the ball, has better moves off the dribble, better moves in the post, and better moves off the ball. MJ has a far wider array of shots that he can hit and is much better at picking apart defenses and getting to his spots (all these skills also apply to Kobe over LBJ).

    The fact that anyone would come in here and try to make this argument is beyond absurd. If you want to make an argument that LBJ has a better athleticism to body/size ratio than MJ then fine, but no one in their right mind would ever try to argue that from a pure basketball ability perspective LBJ is better. Not only is that kind of argument silly, it's silly to put him up against Kobe in that type of comparison, along with several other players (e.g., Bird, KD). LBJ's not a particularly skilled player. He has great athleticism and size and is able to handle the ball, is a very skilled passer, and is an excellent decision maker. However if you put LBJ in Kobe's body, he's probably not in the top 50 all-time (might not be in the top 100 all-time).
    No it isn't. In case you didn't notice, every other person in this thread refutes OceanSpray when he spouts this nonsense.

    Stop trying to lump everyone in with the worst common denominator.

  10. #5995
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No it isn't. In case you didn't notice, every other person in this thread refutes OceanSpray when he spouts this nonsense.

    Stop trying to lump everyone in with the worst common denominator.
    Alright fair enough

  11. #5996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    EXACTLY! That's the point in all of this, whereas Pippen was a true Robin. Nothing wrong with that, he was a great player, but it's disingenuous for these guys to try and put Kobe and Pippen in the same category.
    But heís the only Batman to have the luxury of playing with Superman

  12. #5997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Oh boy...this basically confirms the absurd pro LBJ sentiment in this thread. LBJ is a more skilled passer than MJ and marginally a better rebounder. He pales, and this is an understatement, in comparison to MJ as a defender. Also, not really sure where you're getting that LBJ was a better athlete, MJ was much faster, quicker, more agile, more explosive, and jumped considerably higher than LBJ. LBJ is likely stronger, but that's the only area that I think he would have an athletic advantage over MJ. LBJ is probably better at getting to the rim, but that is where it ends. MJ is a vastly superior shooter, better ball handler, insanely better footwork in the post, off the dribble, and off the ball. MJ is insanely better off the ball, has better moves off the dribble, better moves in the post, and better moves off the ball. MJ has a far wider array of shots that he can hit and is much better at picking apart defenses and getting to his spots (all these skills also apply to Kobe over LBJ).

    The fact that anyone would come in here and try to make this argument is beyond absurd. If you want to make an argument that LBJ has a better athleticism to body/size ratio than MJ then fine, but no one in their right mind would ever try to argue that from a pure basketball ability perspective LBJ is better. Not only is that kind of argument silly, it's silly to put him up against Kobe in that type of comparison, along with several other players (e.g., Bird, KD). LBJ's not a particularly skilled player. He has great athleticism and size and is able to handle the ball, is a very skilled passer, and is an excellent decision maker. However if you put LBJ in Kobe's body, he's probably not in the top 50 all-time (might not be in the top 100 all-time).
    Lebron was faster than MJ. MJ has was quicker, but Bron was faster at top speed. Never seen anyone close the gap on a chase down like Lebron. Thatís also why his fast break was scarier than Mike. Bron is the better athlete. While mike May jump higher by like an inch or two, MJ had a 46 inch vert and Bron had a 44, Bron is carrying 60 more pounds. Being that much bigger while still being just as fast at worst, I think faster, makes him clearly the better athlete. Defensively Bron can guard all five positions at an elite level in his prime. Jordan couldnít even handle old Magic. And thatís why the Bulls lost game one. As soon as they put Pippen on Magic it was game over. Prime Bron shut down MVP Derrick Rose who was absolutely destroying everyone. The defensive argument isnít clear, Jordan may have been better at guarding 1ís and 2ís but he clearly was getting used by old Magic and Prime Bron definitely could of guarded Old Magic better than Jordan.
    Last edited by IKnowHoops; 06-07-2020 at 01:46 AM.

  13. #5998
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d2LPEceKcA is JR smith correct? This is how i feel pass accomplishments not exactly the same as saying best player.
    Last edited by ldawg; 06-07-2020 at 01:13 PM.

  14. #5999
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d2LPEceKcA is JR smith correct? this is how i feel about pass accomplishments not exactly the same as saying best player.
    Heís never wrong


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  15. #6000
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    But heís the only Batman to have the luxury of playing with Superman
    I don't know about that. Magic played with Kareem and the Big O also played with Kareem. In Boston, KG and pierce were both #1s (Allen was arguably a #1 at the time as well) and they played with each other. Dr. J also played with Moses Malone while both were #1s. I do agree that this is a huge advantage though, but there have been other #1s who have also played alongside other #1 options. I think most agree that LBJ had a true #1 in Wade for at least 1-2 years when they paired up. To be fair though most of these aren't on the same caliber as Shaq or Kareem.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-07-2020 at 01:19 PM.

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