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  1. #5971
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    they literally lost because of kobe... he down right refused to let the game plan play through shaq... kobe said to hell with the game plan
    Thatís fair if you want to argue that.

    Whatís not fair is saying Kobe had a off year. I already mentioned what Kobe did leading up to the finals. If that is not enough to convince you that Kobe had a phenomenal year then maybe this will. That same Spurs team had a defensive rating of 94.1 in 04. What does that mean? It means itís higher then any and all 80ís or 90ís team defense. Kobe getting the most points ever scored on a Pop/Duncan team in the playoffs has to count for something.

    Also Kobe and Shaq made the finals with a 41 year old Malone as its 3rd best player. Imagine adding a 41 year old player to a team now and calling them super.

  2. #5972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    2004 KG was clearly the MVP. I have no doubt at that point KG was the best PF. Duncan is still the bench mark at PF. A GOAT.

    Ben Wallace was top 5 and deserving so. Ben Wallace made that Detroit engine run at full speed. Rasheed was not getting any Technical fouls anymore and was a big addition to that engine. They needed each other and Rasheed became a big time player in Detroit. Maybe itís best player but not his system. Billups was hitting everything as was the team best one on one player. Rip just kept running thru screens and Prince was a on ball monster. Detroit won the game the way I like the game played. Hustling and handwork. Wallace was not drafted and one of the if not greatest defensive anchors of all time. Great year for them. No one one had them beating Kobe and Shaq. Itís a great story.
    very few looked beyond Kobe and Shaq vs the east but Phil knew they were in trouble. I was beginning to get really into gambling and stats around this time, made a killing betting on Detroit.

  3. #5973
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    2004 was a rough year for kobe. 2003 might have been his physical peak but he was a better player years after. Not sure how his physical peak was determine. While he had injuries they were not serious and players dont usually peak at 24 without a major injury and in many cases dont last just a few months. In short he was not on decline in 2004 but could not focus on basketball.
    he was better for sure later, but that's cuz he entered what many in the biz call peak phental state. that's when u have the greatest combination of physical ability and mental acuity. so long as you retain enough athleticism, your game can grow with age.

    athletically I think players peak from about 21 to 26. bron had his best days in Miami, possibly 2nd stint in Cleveland but he was for sure a different athlete his first time in Cleveland. dude had an insane first step for his size back then.

  4. #5974
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    At the 5,000th post a mod should have just said "LeBron" and closed the thread.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  5. #5975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    he was better for sure later, but that's cuz he entered what many in the biz call peak phental state. that's when u have the greatest combination of physical ability and mental acuity. so long as you retain enough athleticism, your game can grow with age.

    athletically I think players peak from about 21 to 26. bron had his best days in Miami, possibly 2nd stint in Cleveland but he was for sure a different athlete his first time in Cleveland. dude had an insane first step for his size back then.
    Miami LBJ could shoot 3's.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  6. #5976
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    I think itís time to close this to.

    When Lebron wins a championship this year then Iíll make my first thread. Titled Lebron vs Jordan in honor of this one.

  7. #5977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    I think itís time to close this to.

    When Lebron wins a championship this year then Iíll make my first thread. Titled Lebron vs Jordan in honor of this one.
    From a basketball perspective, LeBron is already better than Jordan. But in terms of accolades, I would probably put LeBron ahead of KAJ if he wins a title this season and assuming LeBron will become the all-time leading scorer/top five in assists, I'd say there isn't a strong argument as to why he isn't the GOAT. He'd have won with three separate teams (which is far more remarkable than winning a three-peat) and have done everything he could from a basketball accolades perspective that should cement himself. Two more rings puts him as the undisputed GOAT.

  8. #5978
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    From a basketball perspective, LeBron is already better than Jordan. But in terms of accolades, I would probably put LeBron ahead of KAJ if he wins a title this season and assuming LeBron will become the all-time leading scorer/top five in assists, I'd say there isn't a strong argument as to why he isn't the GOAT. He'd have won with three separate teams (which is far more remarkable than winning a three-peat) and have done everything he could from a basketball accolades perspective that should cement himself. Two more rings puts him as the undisputed GOAT.
    LeBron better than Jordan? Sorry, no.

  9. #5979
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    LeBron better than Jordan? Sorry, no.
    That's pretty much the response i have when it comes to Kobe.

  10. #5980
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    That's pretty much the response i have when it comes to Kobe.
    But thatís also the response you have when it comes to Grant Hill, Elgin Baylor, Dominque Wilkins, Clyde Drexler or whoever else so...

  11. #5981
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Miami LBJ could shoot 3's.
    he got to learn from Mike Miller and ray Allen. also had another elite playmaker to get him open. then he got korver and became known for his le****you 3s

  12. #5982
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    From a basketball perspective, LeBron is already better than Jordan. But in terms of accolades, I would probably put LeBron ahead of KAJ if he wins a title this season and assuming LeBron will become the all-time leading scorer/top five in assists, I'd say there isn't a strong argument as to why he isn't the GOAT. He'd have won with three separate teams (which is far more remarkable than winning a three-peat) and have done everything he could from a basketball accolades perspective that should cement himself. Two more rings puts him as the undisputed GOAT.

  13. #5983
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    But thatís also the response you have when it comes to Grant Hill, Elgin Baylor, Dominque Wilkins, Clyde Drexler or whoever else so...
    When it comes to peak, maybe. Maybe not.
    Overall, not really. You vilifying my take on Lebron as some sort of hatred has blinded you.

  14. #5984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    Thatís fair if you want to argue that.

    Whatís not fair is saying Kobe had a off year. I already mentioned what Kobe did leading up to the finals. If that is not enough to convince you that Kobe had a phenomenal year then maybe this will. That same Spurs team had a defensive rating of 94.1 in 04. What does that mean? It means itís higher then any and all 80ís or 90ís team defense. Kobe getting the most points ever scored on a Pop/Duncan team in the playoffs has to count for something.

    Also Kobe and Shaq made the finals with a 41 year old Malone as its 3rd best player. Imagine adding a 41 year old player to a team now and calling them super.
    *40
    Malone was a 13/8 guy at 40 (20/8 the previous year), Payton was 14/5 (20/8 the previous year). Obviously they werent the players they once were, but they werent scrubs by any means. 13/8 and 14/5 are very capable stats for a teams 3rd and 4th options regardless of age.
    YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!!!!!

    HAPPY RUSSEV DAY!!!

    2019 PSD Fantasy Nascar Champion

  15. #5985
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    When it comes to peak, maybe. Maybe not.
    Overall, not really. You vilifying my take on Lebron as some sort of hatred has blinded you.
    The fact you even think those guys peaks are as good or better than Bronís proves my point.

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