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  1. #5746
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I think a more telling stat would be Your team rebounds vs your Opponent not overall teams. How much you out rebound the other team. Again more missed shots more chances to rebound. I mean if i look at a team with a high offensive rebounding rate i will think they miss a lot of shots. Diffensive rebound is more telling how well you defended forcing them into a bad shot rebound the ball and turn it into points. I am not sure offensive rebounds are a good thing. Then i will start looking at the team shooting percentage. What kind of shots are they taking and missing.
    What do you mean offensive rebounding is not a good thing??? It basically eliminates the negative impact of a missed shot and if it leads to an easy put back, the missed shot is as good as an assist for a layup.

  2. #5747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    What do you mean offensive rebounding is not a good thing??? It basically eliminates the negative impact of a missed shot and if it leads to an easy put back, the missed shot is as good as an assist for a layup.
    Yes i know but 2 points is 2 points if its off a rebound put back or an assisted shot. So why should i say just because a players warp the floor lead to high amount of Rebounds make him more effective. Thats just one side of the story. Why was there a need to rebound if you made the shot? Sure the offensive rebound can make up for a bad shot. So yes if you have a shooter that misses alot you go out and get a strong rebounder. It dont mean the shooter is good you just get pieces to fit to compliment each other. That by no means is saying that person is better. In Lakers case lob the ball at MCgee, Howard, Davis why do i need a rebound i made the shot
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-29-2020 at 12:12 AM.

  3. #5748
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Yes i know but 2 points is 2 points if its off a rebound put back or an assisted shot. So why should i say just because a players warp the floor lead to high amount of Rebounds make him more effective. Thats just one side of the story. Why was there a need to rebound if you made the shot? Sure the offensive rebound can make up for a bad shot. So yes if you have a shooter that misses alot you go out and get a strong rebounder. It dont mean the shooter is good you just get pieces to fit to compliment each other. That by no means is saying that person is better.
    It's a huge factor if the reason that those players are able to get those rebounds is because of the defensive imbalance a certain player creates. In your argument, you are also forgetting that the difference in missed shots per game between Kobe and LBJ is about 1 shot or so and that does not account for the differences in offensive rebounding. You're also not factoring in that the missed shot doesn't even have to come from Kobe. The defense is focused on him, even when he doesn't have the ball so the defense is guarding certain spots and they're cognizant of where he is at all times. that opens things up.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 05-29-2020 at 12:18 AM.

  4. #5749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    It is if the reason that those players are able to get those rebounds is because of the defensive imbalance they create.
    Maybe but your not very efficient. A good team like the Spurs or in the playoffs wont let that happen. You will be out in the 1st round if you made it. They will send the best defender not the team. So those rebounds you rely on wont work unless you up your talent. In that case you will end up with more efficient Players in the paint not name Kwame or Mhim.
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-29-2020 at 12:26 AM.

  5. #5750
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Maybe but your not very efficient. A good team like the Spurs or in the playoffs wont let that happen. You will be out in the 1st round. They will send the best defender not the team. So those rebounds you rely on wont work unless you up your talent. In that case you will end up with more efficient Players in the paint not name Kwame or Mhim.
    That's what you're not getting. The top defender wasn't enough to stop Kobe. You needed to send two or 3 guys to guard him and be ready to help and be ready to cover certain spots. Again, this efficiency argument amounts to about a 1 shot difference between Kobe and LBJ (which decreases by about half in terms of its impact on the game because of Kobe's ft% advantage)

  6. #5751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    That's what you're not getting. The top defender wasn't enough to stop Kobe. You needed to send two or 3 guys to guard him and be ready to help and be ready to cover certain spots. Again, this efficiency argument amounts to about a 1 shot difference between Kobe and LBJ (which decreases by about half in terms of its impact on the game because of Kobe's ft% advantage)
    no you dont you just need to let him take tough shots and stay home with the other guys. again every time Lakers won they had a top front court and thats with Kobe.

  7. #5752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Because LBJ is basically the offense, it makes sense that others would shoot a higher fg% from his passes then form others because when a shot occurs form other guys and it leads to a shot, it is more likely that something didn't go as planned. Also, Kobe's lower shooting percentage, again is going to lead to a little over more missed shot per game. Kobe's teams however have been much better at offensive rebounding than LBJ's teams (likely because kobe warps the floor in ways that LBJ does not (since kobe is a much more dynamic offensive player) and that opens the floor up for his teammates (that difference far offsets one extra miss per game).
    No itís not that he warps the floor, itís just that Shaq,Gasol,Bynum,Prime Howard are better rebounders than any teamate Bron has ever had. Kobe has had bigger longer teammates and better constructed teams overall than Bron.

  8. #5753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    What do you mean offensive rebounding is not a good thing??? It basically eliminates the negative impact of a missed shot and if it leads to an easy put back, the missed shot is as good as an assist for a layup.
    it def doesnt... it helps but a long stupid missed shot could have taken away from i dont know passing the ball to an open guy or a mismatch? getting the rebound def helps but it doesnt help enough when a guy shoots 6-24... lots of missed mismatches and or open guys there esp if they are as focused on as a guy like a kobe amirite? oh but wait that doesnt fit with your logic that 6-24 isnt a bad thing because he had rebounds lmfao... what a guy

  9. #5754
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    No itís not that he warps the floor, itís just that Shaq,Gasol,Bynum,Prime Howard are better rebounders than any teamate Bron has ever had. Kobe has had bigger longer teammates and better constructed teams overall than Bron.
    :Clap:

    its actually so easy to see unless you are a lebron hater and have an agenda which he is and does.

  10. #5755
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    no you dont you just need to let him take tough shots and stay home with the other guys. again every time Lakers won they had a top front court and thats with Kobe.
    game 7 at home... shoots like 6-900.... was outplayed by metta and gasol... and this dude now worries about rebounds lol

  11. #5756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Sure, but that's a team statistic, it's different from an individual statistic. If you have a player who comes in the game and breaks the defense down every time, causing double and triple teams to converge on him and the guy throws it up for a miss but that leads to an easy offensive put backs, that's just as good as if he would've scored it or if he got an assists. On paper though, it would look like this player is horrible since he would've missed all of his shots and had no assists or pts, but he would really be almost entirely responsible for those put backs. His impact on the game would be huge, but according to the present metric, that guy would've sucked. The end result though would be positive. The game is about winning not about getting these other numbers that have no direct bearing on the game.
    Team efficiency is less of a team statistic than winning a ring but yet your always trying to attribute it to why one individual is better than another. Guys getting rebounds from a guy missing is called winning in spite of your teammates bad shooting. We canít give Kobe credit because he played with big stron centers an PF who were great rebounders.
    Last edited by IKnowHoops; 05-29-2020 at 03:07 AM.

  12. #5757
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    I personally think that both b Shaq and LBJ cheated themselves from the GOAT title. If they both had Kobe's fire they'd be the names mentioned when talking about GOAT. LBJ is mentioned cause he's just a freak of nature, the baddest physical specimen that I've ever seen play basketball. IMO he should have way more titles then he has. Shaq also.
    this is a fantastic point... i have always always stated i wish any player had kobes work ethic and killer mentality.... lebron and shaq had literally all the talent in the world and both are top 5 players but if they had the mentality of the mamba there would be no debate with their talent.... example was the mavs series... lebron wanted to be super passive and keep guys involved over just destroying and it cost them a championship... i have 0 issues with this overall take... lebron against the pistons had he had that mentality always its a wrap.

  13. #5758
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    I have a question... Durant has 2 rings because he joined the most stacked team ever do you think those titles count for his legacy and how much do they count in your eyes? If he had stayed with the warriors and they won 4 or 5 rings would he be better then kobe in your eyes?
    Hmm, how about Lebron with the Heat?

  14. #5759
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Hmm, how about Lebron with the Heat?
    lebron joining the heat is nowhere near the same as durant joining the goat team ever.... if you knew/understood basketball at any level you could see the difference... but you and 2 others in here clearly continue to show not only do you lack logic/basketball knowledge but overall logic in general.... i could go on and show and prove to you how insanely different these things are but i am sure 1+1 to you and the ahem other or others would equate to jello... so there is no point. you will hate and only hate and ignore logic/facts... move on

    my bad.... you probably think tim duncan is on that heat team with bron and a missing prime wade.

  15. #5760
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    lebron joining the heat is nowhere near the same as durant joining the goat team ever.... if you knew/understood basketball at any level you could see the difference... but you and 2 others in here clearly continue to show not only do you lack logic/basketball knowledge but overall logic in general.... i could go on and show and prove to you how insanely different these things are but i am sure 1+1 to you and the ahem other or others would equate to jello... so there is no point. you will hate and only hate and ignore logic/facts... move on

    my bad.... you probably think tim duncan is on that heat team with bron and a missing prime wade.
    So your answer is that you're a hypocrite when it comes to Lebron, you just use your own words to express that. I don't think anyone doubted that to begin with.

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