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  1. #5701
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Anthony Davis is also along the lines of his career averages.
    And this, another player in his prime with no drop off because heís in his prime and not declining

  2. #5702
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    What this is something we can agree on. Base on how each career played out I think Kobe would fit better with Shaq. I said from long Lebron cannot replace Kobe at shooting guard. He would be a worst version of Kobe. The only way Lebron could of fit better if he shot the ball better than he did when younger.

    Having said that he did improve as a shooter and could have been something Phil would have told him to work on and maybe he shoot better sooner. Even with that I would lean with Kobe if I have Shaq. Kobe overall would still be the better guard.

    Both Lebron and Shaq would bring down the teams overall free throw shooting.

    See my bar donít lean one direction.
    I think Lebron and Shaq would be better, much better because Lebron isnít a ball hog. Heís the type of player who will pas it in to Shaq 10 times in a row where as Kobe wasnít willing to do that. And maybe even the bigger piece would be that the lesser teamates that would complain to Shaq about Kobe shooting to much would all be uplifted by Lebrons style of play. There would be no need for someone to close the show because they would literally blow people off the court with a constant unstoppable style of play. They would be offensively like GS from an efficiency standpoint but better defensively and on the glass do to there size. Kobe really fed up that offense. They were still just to talented despite Kobe playing hero ball. Similarly to how Miami was talented enough to overcome poor fit and zero depth.

  3. #5703
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  4. #5704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yep, a lot of these dudes are super biased on here and basically get away with it because it's a pro LBJ thread.
    Edit sorry Big Moves, this was supposed to be a response to Big Tex.

    I replied to when you asked me about Kobe and Brons career and you missed it! If Bron would of been drafted by Leakers they win sooner because Bron was so much better, probably rookie year like Magic and then they also win long after. And Shaq retires as a laker and you guys are the biggest Bron homers ever as Bron is still winning titles and dominating the league just as he is now. This thread wouldnít be created because everyone in the world would thing Bron is better than Kobe because now the only pushback from Kobe fans wouldnít exist now. Weíd all be on the same team here. Ha haaaa!
    Last edited by IKnowHoops; 05-28-2020 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #5705
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Such a silly post. Kobe was not the 3rd best player in that Game 7. He had a poor shooting night, along with almost every other perimeter star player on either team and he also happened to pull down 15 boards and hit a huge 3 in that game. All of those other opportunities Kobe's teammates had was because of Kobe. The defense committed to holding him down and it opened things up for everyone else. That's what you really fail to grasp. Kobe can go 6-24 and still have a far greater impact than a normal star player who goes 8-14.

    As to the KD question, they don't carry that much weight for his legacy because the team was already an elite team without him. The lakers couldn't get out of the west before Kobe became a star (and I think only made the WCF once on a team that had 2 additional all-star caliber players outside of shaq; this was in Kobe's rookie season). Huge difference there.
    If Bron went 6-24 and had a triple double youíd say he was the worst player on the court. How do I know this, because you did this year. Kobe was terrible and was lucky to be the 3D best player on the court. 6-24 is a horrible game from an elite scorer.

  6. #5706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Except that throughout their careers, they average the same amount of shots (LBJ shoots slightly more actually). LBJ will also have inflated assists and scoring because the entire offense is LBJ having the ball, whereas that was never the case for Kobe. Sure, he would break from the offense, but that pales in comparison to someone who the entire offense is having them handle the ball. Kobe also was the ultimate winner so it's silly to say that he would rather score 60 and lose by 15. If that were the case, he could've gone to a team like the cavs after shaq left and averaged 40 a game for the next 7 years or so and been on a mediocre team. Kobe was willing to do whatever it took to win. He played alongside shaq, who constantly took cheap shots at him and threw him under the bus repeatedly with the media, he played with a coach who did the same and then wrote a book about him (and Kobe still allowed him to return to the team) all while sacrificing his maximum output in the process. Kobe was about winning first and foremost.
    are you sure?

    https://www.landofbasketball.com/pla...bron_james.htm

    https://www.nba.com/article/2020/01/24/kobe-lebron

  7. #5707
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    LeBron
    Thanks for the clarification.

  8. #5708
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    https://www.basketball-reference.com.../fga_game.html Dang i thought james Harden took the most shots in a game. **** hes not within arm reach.
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-28-2020 at 09:32 PM.

  9. #5709
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    lebron came out of the gate better so he wouldnt have gotten nearly as carried but yes... we would not have thought lebron was the top guy for the titles... nobody is saying kobe didnt earn them.. we wouldnt be saying omg lebron has 5 rings... the ring against the warriors wasnt the ring itself but the comeback against a far superior team. Nobody that actually understands the sport and the statistics actually cares about the stupid ring argument.... Stockton never won a ring yet he is still one of the goat pgs.... CP3 never won a ring yet he is still one of the goat PGs... Kobe won a ring against the celtics where he was the 3rd best player on his team for a game 7.... lebron beat the warriors and had a far superior series against a much better team... yet i bet you think these 2 rings are equal correct?


    I have a question... Durant has 2 rings because he joined the most stacked team ever do you think those titles count for his legacy and how much do they count in your eyes? If he had stayed with the warriors and they won 4 or 5 rings would he be better then kobe in your eyes?
    Not to mention that we (Well, I) say that about Kobe because even after winning 3 titles on his fave team that he forced himself to that had the historical pedigree and probably the best geographical situation in the entire league where he could have played another 20 years and been seen as some of these guys see him regardless of titles or awards and had the absolute love of the owner he still threatened to leave. He had no ties to Cleveland, they had no winning pedigree, no Magics or Kareems, and no offense to anyone, but itís Cleveland.

    Yes, we might not know how Lebron, a 20 ppg 18 year old rookie, would have played next to Shaq but we sure as tarnation know what Kobe would have done.

    Thatís why I said that and I assume why others have.

  10. #5710
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    https://www.basketball-reference.com.../fga_game.html Dang i thought james Harden took the most shots in a game. **** hes not within arm reach.
    He has more (9 of the Top 20, lol) but I canít fault him for that 60 point game. It was something special and a close game. Still have it in my dvr from a few weeks ago but Iím not sure if I can watch it again yet. It takes me awhile to watch games or movies with a recently deceased person in the prime of their life.

  11. #5711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yes, if two guys take all of their teams shots that's what will happen. Since that's not what occurs, it amounts to about a half shot difference per game (once we factor in ft%) and this completely ignores that we're not accounting for the differences in fg% based on the years they were playing so it ultimately amounts to a meaningless difference. However, if we factor in how much LBJ has the ball and likely has a greater proportion of passes than Kobe, this suggests that LBJ's assists are inflated (i.e., the true difference in their assists is likely far lower once we factor in that LBJ is engaging in more playing making and passing).
    But if team efficiency is higher than the inflated passing stats are justified. And itís been shown that players fg% raises quite a bit when they shoot from passes from Lebron as apposed to shooting it by themselves or from other teamates passes. Where as Kobeís inefficiency leaded to worse overall team efficieny.

  12. #5712
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No, I disregard stats because I don't they don't capture what I think is actually meaningful for assessing players.
    Yes and rings are actually less meaningful because the variables are exponentially higher.

  13. #5713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Except that throughout their careers, they average the same amount of shots (LBJ shoots slightly more actually). LBJ will also have inflated assists and scoring because the entire offense is LBJ having the ball, whereas that was never the case for Kobe. Sure, he would break from the offense, but that pales in comparison to someone who the entire offense is having them handle the ball. Kobe also was the ultimate winner so it's silly to say that he would rather score 60 and lose by 15. If that were the case, he could've gone to a team like the cavs after shaq left and averaged 40 a game for the next 7 years or so and been on a mediocre team. Kobe was willing to do whatever it took to win. He played alongside shaq, who constantly took cheap shots at him and threw him under the bus repeatedly with the media, he played with a coach who did the same and then wrote a book about him (and Kobe still allowed him to return to the team) all while sacrificing his maximum output in the process. Kobe was about winning first and foremost.
    Shooting attempts show what actually happened. And Kobeís highest shot attempts destroys Lebrons career high. And the only reason itís close is because like you said, Kobe was a bench player for 2 years

  14. #5714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    He has more (9 of the Top 20, lol) but I canít fault him for that 60 point game. It was something special and a close game. Still have it in my dvr from a few weeks ago but Iím not sure if I can watch it again yet. It takes me awhile to watch games or movies with a recently deceased person in the prime of their life.
    Kobe was My guy. No one can replace him. If it have a player i would love to see another 10 years its Kobe.

  15. #5715
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    Lakers won game 7 and Kobe was the alpha so that game was won because of Kobe and only because of Kobe. Thatís how the alpha works right?

    Example Kobe averaged 33 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists against the Spurs. Here is a list of MVPís who NEVER broke 30 points average against the Spurs in a series. Lebron, KG, Nash, Malone and Iverson. Kobe did but he wasnít the alpha so Shaq beat that Spurs team not Kobe.

    Is that how it works or am I missing something?

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