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  1. #5551
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Robert Horry says hello
    That wasn't an elimination game for the Lakers. The 2 plays I bring up were actual win or go home for LBJ led teams. He got bailed out on 2 of his 3 rings. If it weren't for 2 elimination deciding shots by other players LBJ would only have 1 ring. How doesn't that come into play when giving credit to LBJs rings?

  2. #5552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Never mind, you are this clueless.
    Good thing you got little friends here on PSD cause sarcasm isn't your friend.

  3. #5553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    So far, everyone who doesn't pick LBJ in this thread has been deemed a hater lol. It also doesn't bother me. The point came up because it was said that most people on this thread pick LBJ. My response was that this because you guys attack anyone who doesn't so most dont take this place seriously and just avoid coming on here
    NO its the inaccurate narrative.

  4. #5554
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    That wasn't an elimination game for the Lakers. The 2 plays I bring up were actual win or go home for LBJ led teams. He got bailed out on 2 of his 3 rings. If it weren't for 2 elimination deciding shots by other players LBJ would only have 1 ring. How doesn't that come into play when giving credit to LBJs rings?
    Horry, fisher, ron artest, pau all bailed out Kobe. Why even bring that up. its a team sport they cant do it alone.
    why do it have to be an elimination game, if you dont win 6 there is no 7 whats the difference.
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-27-2020 at 07:12 AM.

  5. #5555
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    That wasn't an elimination game for the Lakers. The 2 plays I bring up were actual win or go home for LBJ led teams. He got bailed out on 2 of his 3 rings. If it weren't for 2 elimination deciding shots by other players LBJ would only have 1 ring. How doesn't that come into play when giving credit to LBJs rings?
    No because he was the best and most productive player on the team. He really has to hit the last shot to get credit for the championship? That seems kinda of silly no?


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  6. #5556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    He was being sarcastic in response to another poster. Some of these guys are saying Kobe should only get a quarter credit for his rings. What that sort of thing shows is what I've been saying all along, which is that there is a strong bias here that is pro LBJ and anti Kobe. I definitely agree with you in terms of how credit should be partitioned for Kobe's titles
    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Horry, fisher, ron artest, pau all bailed out Kobe. Why even bring that up. its a team sport they cant do it alone.
    why do it have to be an elimination game, if you dont win 6 there is no 7 whats the difference.
    Exactly. It is a team sport. Yeah don't get me wrong I love a game-winning hero ball jumpshot as much as the next guy but to try and take away 2 rings because of 2 plays by his teammates is ludicrous. If the player was an important contributor and the team wins the championship then they earned the ring. In LeBron's case he was THE MOST IMPORTANT PLAYER on all 3 of those championship teams. Just because he didn't hit every shot in crunch time you can't knock him.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  7. #5557
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Robert Horry says hello
    Seriously. Can you imagine trying to go back and take away all the championships from superstar players who won because a teammate hit a big shot? That would be a fun way to spend time tracking down all those lost rings.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  8. #5558
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Anytime I bring up anything other than finals wins. You say all that matters are championships. Now when I bring up finals, you say you donít know why we are restricting it to finals. Fine Bron has more playoff wins/pts/statistics than Kobe.
    I'm saying that when comparing Kobe to other players' finals performance, the more appropriate comparison is the WCF for 3-4 of his championship runs because that's what the toughest series was. During his time with shaq, the toughest series was always in the WCF (so that's what should be compared); in 04 it could go either way, but for that year it's fair to examine hist finals performance because the pistons were a legitimate finals opponent; same in 09, as the nuggets might've been a tougher opponent than Orlando, but Orlando was at least a reasonable finals opponent). In 2010, it's completely fair to look at the finals. For LBJ, it's not appropriate to compare his playoff performances to players from the west, because he's playing mostly against teams who would miss the playoffs in the west or be easy outs in the 1st round (so it's really only the finals that's relevant). Since everything runs through LBJ, his performance will always be inflated compared to any star, but at least taking the aforementioned context into account will allow for a more direct comparison.

    Really, if we want to get a gauge of how any player played in the biggest stage in the playoffs, we need to look at the series where they went up against their best opponent. For some, that will be the Finals, for others it will be some other playoff round. Because the east was absolutely horrible from about 2000-2018 or so, this type of comparison should always be restricted to the finals, and probably to the WCF in most years for players from the West. We usually examine the finals because we assume that this was the toughest matchup that year, but that's not always the case (especially for teams from the west).
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 05-27-2020 at 09:57 AM.

  9. #5559
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    NO its the inaccurate narrative.
    It's not an inaccurate narrative, it's that the context can change the actual criteria and when that occurs some of you focus on the change in criteria, while completely ignoring why that criteria is different (i.e., because the context is different).

  10. #5560
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    But you just said nobody cares about winning just meaningless stats, then you just said Kevin love had 3 incredible years with the wolves and is a top 5 player. I mean bruh

    Kevin never even got to the playoffs but your saying heís the best of in the game. So why does Lebron need to win 5 rings to prove heís the better than Kobe when like love heís got a major stat advantage plus 3 rings as well. Your giving Love more benefit of the doubt than Lebron now...
    I've addressed this sort of thing many times before and directly to you. I'll say it again, you don't necessarily have to win to become a superstar or a borderline superstar (which is what I would have considered Love during his time in Minny or at least well on his way to that). For me though, once a player is solidified as an elite superstar, which both Kobe and LBJ were/are, then titles matter for me, because a player of their caliber can put up incredible numbers if that's what they really want to do. At that stage, the real trick is finding ways to win. At the stage Kevin Love was at, he wasn't yet held to that standard. C'mon dude, we've been over this several times and you should know my position on this at this point.

  11. #5561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Kobe and Shaq in the early 2000's could be though of as "top heavy" by those very same standards.
    Yep

  12. #5562
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Oh, I see your confusion. What I was talking about before was their accolades, what they have accomplished. What Iím talking about now is my actual list of top players, I.e. talent.

    Completely separate things. Accolades, heís got an MVP, 5 rings, etc. but talking actual talent and ability I have him 21st (well in that 16-25 range). I just think there were 20 players who were actually better basketball players than him but due to unfortunate circumstances, werenít in a position to win as many rings.

    So itís completely separate lists.
    It's clear what you're doing, but I will note that this isn't some nitpicky thing that I'm doing when I make that distinction. The most talented team does not always win the title. I saw the the MIA/SAS series as a great accomplishment because (at least in my view) the less talented spurs team where able to beat the juggernaut talent through basketball fundamentals and execution. It's easy to look back on how guys performed and say "see Player X was declining, look at how he played", the issue there is that how any given player plays is fundamentally intertwined with his team and their opponent and so a player playing poorly during a stretch could be (1) due to them declining, (2) the system they're playing in, (3) their opponent, or (4) any combination of those factors. If Wade were to return to form in 2015 no one would've said "see, Wade was declining" we would've attributed the drop in play to some other factor. All of this is occurring in hindsight and it changes the narrative from what it was during that time (and we probably shouldn't do this).

    When I refer to how talented a team is, I am actually never referring to how good they are as a team. I'm referring to how good each player on the team is. I thought OKC was very talented throughout the entire time KD and Westbrook were together, but I didn't think very much of them as a basketball team because I thought they had horrible execution and played poor basketball (they go try on talent, but really had no business as contenders, at least in my view). I look at talent on a team based on the parts the team has, I look at the quality of the team based on how well those parts are assembled and how well they run. This isn't a nitpick point I make, it is one that I actually take very seriously.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 05-27-2020 at 10:32 AM.

  13. #5563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    It's not an inaccurate narrative, it's that the context can change the actual criteria and when that occurs some of you focus on the change in criteria, while completely ignoring why that criteria is different (i.e., because the context is different).
    No itís the context that change one views to to paint a different picture. Itís like Kneeling on a guys neck until he dies. The lawyer paints a different picture to sway reality in defense. Thatís why I said you could have been a lawyer. Lol your trying very hard to twist reality to fit your narrative.
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-27-2020 at 12:06 PM.

  14. #5564
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    Omfg this guy is still here? Can you get a job or something????????

  15. #5565
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Omfg this guy is still here? Can you get a job or something????????
    Bro, the better question is why are you here? You haven't even been on this thread until recently. If you don't like the content on here then maybe you should go to a different thread.

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