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  1. #5521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yep, couldn't agree more
    Of course they will try and act like we are just a vocal minority.

  2. #5522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    LeBron was never close to the level of dominance Jordan had over the NBA. Statistically, he was very close, but that's literally it. Jordan dominated in winning. He was a much greater defender and one of the best of his era while playing the best offense at the other end. He did this for nearly his whole career less the Wizards years of course. LeBron has only done this one year in 2013. Dishing out to jump shooters and three point shooters to pad your assisting stats, does not mean you are necessarily better at getting others involved. LeBron will make you better if you are a journey man three and D guy, but if you are a Chris Bosh or Kevin Love, watch out.

    Since 2010, LeBron has been in very ideal situations. The true greats do what it takes to win. They do not say, since I am the best in the league (or at least believe myself to be so) therefore you all need to fall into line. Jordan learned the triangle system at the behest of Phil Jackson and learned how to get his teammates more involved. Just passing to outside shooters in not getting them involved btw; Letting them have real responsibilities and playmakimg ability is. I honestly believe that Phil would demand him to play in a real system and therefore his stats would go down. His stats are the only thing he has close to compare himself to Jordan. Because of this, I believe that LeBron would likely run Phil off. He have already seen what he has done to coaches when they try to make him conform to a real system.

    Injuries are decided by the basketball gods. League mandates are not. Would you put an asterisk on Kawhi's most recent ring?

    All titles are not created equal and should not be treated as such for many various reasons. We must look at how much help the player had in respect to their competition. A person's greatness is judged on the level of trials and tribulations they faced in the form of their adversaries and whether or not they came out on top. The greater the trial or opponent you overcame, the greater your legacy will be. Hercules would not be the Greek legend he is if he had not completed his 12 labors.
    Lebron individually was on top of the NBA in a similar way for a long time to many. Sure his teams didn't always win but that is not an individual aspect it is a team thing. Jordan wasn't winning his whole career but after getting Pippen etc. for example. Stats you mentioned and accolades too. Lebron was 2nd in DPOY voting he was still considered great even if not quite MJ. You don't need to have Lebron above or with MJ but the point was both of them dominated the ball/game plenty and still also had teammates involved. Creating the best shot possible is important and padding your stats is different than winning basketball. I have pointed this out to many with the Klove/Cousins and so on stuff people have pulled trying to prop up true stat padding. Bosh/Love were the 3rd best scorers on their teams, they needed to adapt given that and it lead to actually winning. One of them did better than the other too.

    Sure he has and most all time greats were in very ideal situations too. There is no set criteria on how it happens and being lucky isn't better nor do I let my feelings on how I think things should happen and so on get in the way. I agree it would have been better if Lebron had Phil but he got Mike Brown instead. I just mentioned it above but I think people underrate Spo as he did create the pace and space system for Miami which helped them flourish. Lebron was the engine but the system created space for the offense, off ball movement and ball movement as well to ensure everyone remained involved (while Lebron/best player is focal point making majority of creation off attention he draws and so on, moving him to post more for this etc).

    I don't put asterisks on any rings lol. I do understand the context of how that ring was won though too. It isn't like a thing you count though, some individuals play better than others on their way to the team accomplishments. I factor all context so asterisks are unnecessary.

    I agree we should. When you break it down Heat were underdogs going into OKC. In fact many thought they may lose to Boston with Bosh hurt and so on until Lebrons unbelievable all time level game 6. That spurs team has been covered a ton in here and a couple threads kinda were made too about it but basically they are largely considered great and Wade/Bosh were not top 5 or even 10 players anymore later on and so on. Then when you factor in the gap many saw between GS trying to repeat and having 73 wins with how poor Love played and his concussion stuff for Lebron/Kyrie to carry the Cavs was again another great feat to many. It is for the exact reasons you mention and big individual games Lebron has had or individual series he has had overall in big finals or ECF and so on that make him one of the greats. To most the Cavs title was huge and we already have seen so much dominance from stats/accolades/top of league to many he is right in that top group of 3. Most people I have seen at least have him top 5 and it is for everything combined including some of these great moments.

  3. #5523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Fair enough, doesn't mean it's not true though and that it doesn't hold merit. Whether you agree with that or not is a different story. This is my list though so I dont need you or anyone else to agree with it lol. These are the reasons why I'm not really exalting KD and i really like KD. If you play with super talented teams (relative to the rest of the league) it raises the standards.
    Iím not trying to contest your ranking, Iím trying to understand your thought process and the criteria and logic youíre using to come up with it.

    We are all free to have our own lists. Thatís why me personally, my list has Kobe 21st all-time.

  4. #5524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Of course they will try and act like we are just a vocal minority.
    Yep, and they try to ensure it stays a minority in here by attacking whoever doesn't agree with them and labeling them haters.

  5. #5525
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Iím not trying to contest your ranking, Iím trying to understand your thought process and the criteria and logic youíre using to come up with it.

    We are all free to have our own lists. Thatís why me personally, my list has Kobe 21st all-time.
    That ranking must've changed since yesterday, but hey, I can't convince you to be right

  6. #5526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    That ranking must've changed since yesterday, but hey, I can't convince you to be right
    I never made a ranked list yesterday...

  7. #5527
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Iím not trying to contest your ranking, Iím trying to understand your thought process and the criteria and logic youíre using to come up with it.

    We are all free to have our own lists. Thatís why me personally, my list has Kobe 21st all-time.
    Hmmmm a bit low to me, I have him 17th all time.

  8. #5528
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I never made a ranked list yesterday...
    I mean your ranking of kobe

  9. #5529
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Hmmmm a bit low to me, I have him 17th all time.
    I could see an argument for anywhere in the 16th to 25th range, but no way is he top 15.

  10. #5530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I mean your ranking of kobe
    I ranked Kobe yesterday?

  11. #5531
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I could see an argument for anywhere in the 16th to 25th range, but no way is he top 15.

  12. #5532
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I could see an argument for anywhere in the 16th to 25th range, but no way is he top 15.
    That makes sense to me, the only time we really saw him face tough competition on the way to a title as the focus of the defense/top player on team taking on the attention was against the Celtics after the KG injury too. It really wasn't a great individual series for him and game 7 didn't step up a ton either (6/24 with 4 turnover and 2 assists) but they did win as a team so there is at least that. He did enough to get it done so more late teens to me but ya above 15 probably tough to push for.

  13. #5533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yep, and they try to ensure it stays a minority in here by attacking whoever doesn't agree with them and labeling them haters.
    That seems to be their go to. Shaming 101.

  14. #5534
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Hmmmm a bit low to me, I have him 17th all time.
    Wow lol that is pretty damn low bro. What is your top 20?

  15. #5535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Wow lol that is pretty damn low bro. What is your top 20?
    They're trolling lol. Pretty sure they've both ranked Kobe in the top 10 or pretty close to it (I think around 8 or 9 is where they've ranked him).

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