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  1. #5446
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    What rediculous claim?
    That even if Kobe only earned 3.5 titles it is still more than 3. You were being facetious and backhanded and not serious. And then MTM took it even further. Non issue.

  2. #5447
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    But Cleveland had LBJ
    Never mind, you are this clueless.

  3. #5448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Kobe didn't specially force his way onto the lakers as a rookie. He said he was bluffing and the lakers also weren't an elite team at the time. However, Kobe was not in his prime when he teamed up with shaq. Sure, if the 01 and beyond version of Kobe teamed with shaq in 97 and they played until 04 together, then I would agree. But Kobe and shaq really only had about 2-3 years were both were producing at a superstar level. Kobe then didn't get to hand pick who the lakers got. they traded for gasol when they had the chance, but Kobe didn't orchestrate bringing in gasol. the lakers then traded for cp3, but that wasn't at the behest of Kobe (at least not to my knowledge). Either way, Kobe basically played with 2 HOF caliber players during his career. LBJ has now played with at least 3-4 and counting and this was all during his prime, whereas Kobe really only played with 1 (and gasol was not a superstar).
    He’s since admitted (and his people, too) that he wasn’t bluffing. Stop with this ********.

    Also, saying something so it doesn’t happen then later saying you were bluffing is the weakest move you can do. Would he have really left? Doesn’t matter. He bluffed to get what he wanted regardless of the opposite scenario.

    You’ve lost all credibility and I honestly think you’re just stringing everyone along so you can say “See! It’s not as simple as people think! The thread lasted 500 pages!” when the last 485 of them were just you trolling over inane garbage, conjecture, bias, and regurgitating ******** that gets repeatedly debunked.


    Where are all the people that said Kobe then left because people were being mean to them? Prove it or get the **** out.
    Last edited by Saddletramp; 05-26-2020 at 11:02 PM.

  4. #5449
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    But Kobe chucks, he shoots more than Lebron and scores less points. That in itself is all the proof we need that Lebron was more of a positive player than Kobe just looking at scoring. You can’t say Bron stat pads, but takes less shots, and has his hands all the ball roughly the same amount. At the end of the day, the ball goes in the hole more often when Bron has the ball compared to when Kobe has it.
    No, we've been over the scoring thing in the past. Kobe scores more than LBJ. The career averages are misleading because kobe came off the bench his first 2.5 seasons and then was done as an elite player after the achilles injury. Taking a decade of their top scoring seasons kobe wins 8 out of the 10. They also dont touch the ball as much. LBJ makes it so that the offense completely runs though him. Kobe would break from the triangle often, but he was still playing within an offense. LBJ has never done that.

  5. #5450
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Lebron’s performances in the finals have also been much better than Kobe’s. He’s been better at ever phase of the game. Against the the best regular season team in history he lead both teams in pts/reb/asst/Blk/stl and won. It’s never been done before. The dude is a monster. It would be hard to do this stuff on nba2k. The Dude continually does stuff that nobody has ever done before. He’s a one off. He’s outperformed Kobe in finals against tougher competition because he plays against the west and Kobe plays against the east right, so...
    I mean, he had what, one real series to prepare for every season, whereas kobe had to go through 3-4 real series. Not really sure why we're restricting to the finals either, since in the west, the biggest playoff series was the WCF finals and if we're going to compare their performances, we have to adjust for the massive rule differences between the early 2000s and when LBJ started playing in in the finals.

  6. #5451
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    And if Kobe didn’t play with the most dominant force in all of basketball and someone that was better than him his 1st 3 rings would carry a bit of weight. I mean if it was a fifth we’d all be drunk. There is an if and a but for Kobe as well.
    Sure, but at the end of the day 5 > 3 despite LBJ playing his entire prime with stars he handpicked. Kobe played with shaq, but not during his prime. No star in the history of the league has the opportunity that LBJ had.

  7. #5452
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    But they do count less because you’re saying LeBron needs more rings to equal Bird...
    Different circumstances warrant different standards. If you have one person who has fewer opportunities and achieves as much as someone who had far more opportunities, it's not unreasonable to hold what the person with fewer opportunities accomplished in higher regard (even though technically they are the same).

  8. #5453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Different circumstances warrant different standards. If you have one person who has fewer opportunities and achieves as much as someone who had far more opportunities, it's not unreasonable to hold what the person with fewer opportunities accomplished in higher regard (even though technically they are the same).
    That’s a fancy way of saying they’re worth less

  9. #5454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    He’s since admitted (and his people, too) that he wasn’t bluffing. Stop with this ********.

    Also, saying something so it doesn’t happen then later saying you were bluffing is the weakest move you can do. Would he have really left? Doesn’t matter. He bluffed to get what he wanted regardless of the opposite scenario.

    You’ve lost all credibility and I honestly think you’re just stringing everyone along so you can say “See! It’s not as simple as people think! The thread lasted 500 pages!” when the last 485 of them were just you trolling over inane garbage, conjecture, bias, and regurgitating ******** that gets repeatedly debunked.


    Where are all the people that said Kobe then left because people were being mean to them? Prove it or get the **** out.
    That's news to me that he wasn't bluffing (not sure why that is relevant)...also hilarious that you're judging the moves of a 17 year old kid. Where are all the people who picked kobe? Go back and look over the thread. Guaranteed they're there, but then again, I'm not the one who is looking for proof. Go ahead and dig through the thread. If my posts bother you so much, you can ignore them. Not sure why you're even replying to me. This response actually exemplifies exactly what I'm talking about. You're basically telling me to leave hahahaha, what a joke. Where is the proof? Look at your post, doofus!

  10. #5455
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No, we've been over the scoring thing in the past. Kobe scores more than LBJ. The career averages are misleading because kobe came off the bench his first 2.5 seasons and then was done as an elite player after the achilles injury. Taking a decade of their top scoring seasons kobe wins 8 out of the 10. They also dont touch the ball as much. LBJ makes it so that the offense completely runs though him. Kobe would break from the triangle often, but he was still playing within an offense. LBJ has never done that.
    who is looking at the first two year stop reciting that. Look down the career numbers Kobe never shot over 47% in any season. Lebron this season is almost at 50% in miami he was shooting 56% for two seasons. They dont touch the ball much. did you see the vid of Kyrie dribbling with the ball and taking the shot? How about in miami with Wade did he not share the rock and made most of the shots he took? in 4 seasons in miami he never shot below 51% and do you want to see how many shots he took?
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-26-2020 at 11:46 PM.

  11. #5456
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    That’s a fancy way of saying they’re worth less
    Fair enough, doesn't mean it's not true though and that it doesn't hold merit. Whether you agree with that or not is a different story. This is my list though so I dont need you or anyone else to agree with it lol. These are the reasons why I'm not really exalting KD and i really like KD. If you play with super talented teams (relative to the rest of the league) it raises the standards.

  12. #5457
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    who is looking at the first two year stop reciting that. Look down the career numbers Kobe never shot over 47% in any season. Lebron this season is almost at 50% in miami he was shooting 56% for two seasons. They dont touch the ball much. did you see the vid of Kyrie dribbling with the ball and taking the shot? How about in miami with Wade did he not share the rock and made forst of the shots he took? in 4 seasons in miami he never shot below 51% and do you want to see how many shots he took?
    Yep, yet despite that, for their careers, their fg% amounts to about a 1 shot difference in makes per game. So it's trivial. And this becomes more trivial when we factor in their differences in ft%. We're talking bout maybe half a shot difference per game. I'll tell you what's not trivial, kobe requires a lot more defensive attention and is tougher to guard (per almost every elite defender that's guarded both) and that opens up a lot of things for their teammates. Here's a stat for you, Kobe's teams (at least the ones that were contenders) were usually among the league leaders in offensive rebounding, whereas LBJ's were usually in the middle or bottom of the pack. The reason for that is likely that kobe is creating a defensive imbalance that makes it much easier to get those boards, whereas LBJ does not have that same effect. Even this season, with AD as an elite defender and a really big team, we're 10th in the league. Kobe's team's were usually in the top 4-5. That difference far outweighs missing half extra shot per game.

    Let's be clear here. All this talk about efficiency and this difference really amounts to about half a shot more that kobe misses per game (once we account for ft%). That's what this entire statistical argument is mostly founded on, a half shot lol
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 05-27-2020 at 12:03 AM.

  13. #5458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Kobe didn't specially force his way onto the lakers as a rookie. He said he was bluffing and the lakers also weren't an elite team at the time. However, Kobe was not in his prime when he teamed up with shaq. Sure, if the 01 and beyond version of Kobe teamed with shaq in 97 and they played until 04 together, then I would agree. But Kobe and shaq really only had about 2-3 years were both were producing at a superstar level. Kobe then didn't get to hand pick who the lakers got. they traded for gasol when they had the chance, but Kobe didn't orchestrate bringing in gasol. the lakers then traded for cp3, but that wasn't at the behest of Kobe (at least not to my knowledge). Either way, Kobe basically played with 2 HOF caliber players during his career. LBJ has now played with at least 3-4 and counting and this was all during his prime, whereas Kobe really only played with 1 (and gasol was not a superstar).
    You're right that Gasol was not a "superstar" but by that same criteria neither were Kyrie, Love, Bosh. Kobe played with a superstar in Shaq. Lebron played with a superstar in Wade. And Kobe played with Shaq who was in his absolute prime and better than Wade ever was in his.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  14. #5459
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    You're right that Gasol was not a "superstar" but by that same criteria neither were Kyrie, Love, Bosh. Kobe played with a superstar in Shaq. Lebron played with a superstar in Wade. And Kobe played with Shaq who was in his absolute prime and better than Wade ever was in his.
    Fair enough, but kobe was not in his prime when he played with shaq, whereas LBJ was in his prime when he played with Wade.

  15. #5460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Fair enough, but kobe was not in his prime when he played with shaq, whereas LBJ was in his prime when he played with Wade.
    Agreed on that. But, we also have to acknowledge that Lebron played with Wade for his age 29-32 seasons. While Lebron was in his prime, Wade was not in his during their time together. Wade's reckless playing style caught up to him - the way it does for most guards that rely on athleticism over shooting - and by the end of the their time together he wasn't really a "superstar" anymore. Hence why Lebron dumped him to go play with younger guys.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

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