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  1. #5311
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    i did ask you multiple days ago multiple times and it was crickets... i even went on to post and link articles from kobe himself saying so and what people thought about that etc... it was a ***** move and it is far worse then lebron going and being a number 1 in miami... lebron was never gifted talent all his career like kobe and never demanded a trade because he didnt have it.

    I even went on to ask in a game 7 or any big series win was lebron ever the 3rd best player on his team????? go check that game 7 against the celtics where kobe was carrier by metta and gasol.
    You likely posted when I said I was leaving the thread. Again though, as I've already mentioned, a 17 year old budding his way onto a middle of the pack playoff team is vasty different than a prime superstar orchestrating to play with two other top 10 players who are in their primes. The two scenarios aren't even comparable.

    It's also absurd to say Kobe was the 3rd best player in Game 7. Kobe didn't shoot the ball well in that game, but he still had a pretty strong game. Led the team in scoring and had 15 rebounds. Those opportunities that other guys got were there because the defense was busy trying to stop Kobe. LBJ would've likely put up very nice numbers in that game...and lost. I'll take the title, thank you. That's what winner prefer.

  2. #5312
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    For the love of God can we stop with the Chris Bosh was a top 10 player nonsense?

  3. #5313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    You likely posted when I said I was leaving the thread. Again though, as I've already mentioned, a 17 year old budding his way onto a middle of the pack playoff team is vasty different than a prime superstar orchestrating to play with two other top 10 players who are in their primes. The two scenarios aren't even comparable.

    It's also absurd to say Kobe was the 3rd best player in Game 7. Kobe didn't shoot the ball well in that game, but he still had a pretty strong game. Led the team in scoring and had 15 rebounds. Those opportunities that other guys got were there because the defense was busy trying to stop Kobe. LBJ would've likely put up very nice numbers in that game...and lost. I'll take the title, thank you. That's what winner prefer.
    so now you speak of them trying to stop kobe as an excuse for his bad game? teams have been focusing to stop lebron from day 1 and they couldnt.... kobe was a robin for 3 of his 5 titles... kobe was a robin against detroit and cost them the series because he was trying to be batman... detroits game plan was stop shaq and force kobe to shoot for the win and the massive upset.... an upset that never gets talked about against kobe because he wasnt the superstar on the team but a supporting character... there is no difference from kobe against detroit and lebron against dallas except lebron was better and he still choked yet everyone says he choked but speaks nothing of the choke job kobe did against the pistons. Continue with your hypocritcal mumbo jumbo because you twist every argument to try and pump up kobe and hurt lebron per usual....

    fun note if kobe was leading the team this year and he lost with AD youd make excuses until you are blue in the face blaming the coronavirus and the time off as to what handicapped the lakers who were surging... if lebron loses you will say well the time off should help him because he is old so there is no excuses

  4. #5314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Only MTM said that in jest after McAllen made that ridiculous claim. “Some of the guys”? What the hell are you talking about?

    It’s not anti-Kobe/Lebron cucks if you believe Lebron was better but it sure as **** seems like the “Kobe is better” guys are anti-Lebron/Kobe cucks.
    What rediculous claim?

  5. #5315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    You likely posted when I said I was leaving the thread. Again though, as I've already mentioned, a 17 year old budding his way onto a middle of the pack playoff team is vasty different than a prime superstar orchestrating to play with two other top 10 players who are in their primes. The two scenarios aren't even comparable.

    It's also absurd to say Kobe was the 3rd best player in Game 7. Kobe didn't shoot the ball well in that game, but he still had a pretty strong game. Led the team in scoring and had 15 rebounds. Those opportunities that other guys got were there because the defense was busy trying to stop Kobe. LBJ would've likely put up very nice numbers in that game...and lost. I'll take the title, thank you. That's what winner prefer.
    right there shows your lack of knowledge and hypocritical bs and hate/bias... why would lebron have lost exactly? lebron makes his teammates better and i am sure he def would not have shot anywhere near as bad as kobe did all while being double teamed something kobe wasnt by the way and bron was a better defender... so why exactly would a better 2 way player that likes to pass to the open guy would have lost in that situation where kobe almost cost his team and forced gasol to carry and 60 year old metta to be huge?

  6. #5316
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    What rediculous claim?
    the way you count rings and my rebuttal which was sarcastic to prove a point and show just how important shaq was over kobe in those rings. Rings are rings period... you win them and how you perform and what you do and what your team does dictates how impressive those rings were for superstars... it sucks to even think that way but it has merit.. The way you counted the rings doesnt. Kobe still has 5 rings he just has 3 of them as a robin/2nd fiddle.

  7. #5317
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It’s interesting that he touts Bosh as a top 10 player before and during his Heat stint and talks about how not good Duncan was by that time when:

    Bosh has only received MVP consideration twice: finishing 7th in 2007 and 12th in 2010.

    Duncan finished 7th in MVP voting in 2013 and 12th in 2014.

    Bosh has only made the All-NBA team once: 2nd team in 2007

    Duncan made the All-NBA 1st team in 2013 and the All-NBA 3rd team in 2015.


    So of course BigMoves thinks Bosh was better than Duncan during this time...
    Yes, because Duncan is beloved my the media and was a favorite when people voted because he was a team guy on a championship caliber team and had been that for a very long time. In 2010, bosh averaged 24 and 11 compared to Duncan's 18 and 10. In 2011, bosh basically averaged 19 and 8 to Duncan's 13 and 9. In 2012, bosh averaged 18 and 8 to Duncan's 15 and 10. In 2013, bosh averaged 17 and 7 compared to Duncan's 18 and 10. In 2014, bosh averaged 16 and 6.5 to Duncan's 15 and 10. It's not until 2013 that Duncan starts to put up better numbers, but Bosh is the #3 option, whereas a core of the offense was still being run through Duncan during this time. As soon as LBJ left (2015), Bosh's numbers went to 21 and 7 compared to Duncan's 14 and 7. So yes, having a considerably bigger role on the team and still producing less seems to suggest that said player is not as good as the one with a lesser role.

  8. #5318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yes, because Duncan is beloved my the media and was a favorite when people voted because he was a team guy on a championship caliber team and had been that for a very long time. In 2010, bosh averaged 24 and 11 compared to Duncan's 18 and 10. In 2011, bosh basically averaged 19 and 8 to Duncan's 13 and 9. In 2012, bosh averaged 18 and 8 to Duncan's 15 and 10. In 2013, bosh averaged 17 and 7 compared to Duncan's 18 and 10. In 2014, bosh averaged 16 and 6.5 to Duncan's 15 and 10. It's not until 2013 that Duncan starts to put up better numbers, but Bosh is the #3 option, whereas a core of the offense was still being run through Duncan during this time. As soon as LBJ left (2015), Bosh's numbers went to 21 and 7 compared to Duncan's 14 and 7. So yes, having a considerably bigger role on the team and still producing less seems to suggest that said player is not as good as the one with a lesser role.
    wow you really think bosh is a top 10 player lol

  9. #5319
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    It's incredible how he uses stats without context so often while writing off all stats (often within context) when they don't say what he wants lol.

  10. #5320
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post


    I am sorry I was not up at 2am 3am and 4am for this debate to continue but why are we taking away Kobe's rings?

    That's just silly. He gets full credit for 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010. If you want to give him a SLIGHT knock for 2000 that is the maximum penalty. You guys know he was still a 20-5-5 guy that season that helped them get the #1 and 67 wins right? That might have helped them. Like why does he lose his ring?

    So how many rings does Pippen have?
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    He was being sarcastic in response to another poster. Some of these guys are saying Kobe should only get a quarter credit for his rings. What that sort of thing shows is what I've been saying all along, which is that there is a strong bias here that is pro LBJ and anti Kobe. I definitely agree with you in terms of how credit should be partitioned for Kobe's titles
    Yep I was just being sarcastic. Posters trying to make it seem like Shaq won the 3peat all by himself.

  11. #5321
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    the way you count rings and my rebuttal which was sarcastic to prove a point and show just how important shaq was over kobe in those rings. Rings are rings period... you win them and how you perform and what you do and what your team does dictates how impressive those rings were for superstars... it sucks to even think that way but it has merit.. The way you counted the rings doesnt. Kobe still has 5 rings he just has 3 of them as a robin/2nd fiddle.
    How do I count rings?

  12. #5322
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    so now you speak of them trying to stop kobe as an excuse for his bad game? teams have been focusing to stop lebron from day 1 and they couldnt.... kobe was a robin for 3 of his 5 titles... kobe was a robin against detroit and cost them the series because he was trying to be batman... detroits game plan was stop shaq and force kobe to shoot for the win and the massive upset.... an upset that never gets talked about against kobe because he wasnt the superstar on the team but a supporting character... there is no difference from kobe against detroit and lebron against dallas except lebron was better and he still choked yet everyone says he choked but speaks nothing of the choke job kobe did against the pistons. Continue with your hypocritcal mumbo jumbo because you twist every argument to try and pump up kobe and hurt lebron per usual....

    fun note if kobe was leading the team this year and he lost with AD youd make excuses until you are blue in the face blaming the coronavirus and the time off as to what handicapped the lakers who were surging... if lebron loses you will say well the time off should help him because he is old so there is no excuses
    I'm actually refuting the claim that Kobe had a bad game. he didn't. he didn't shoot the ball well, but he still had a massive impact on that game. Yep, your response here shows just what a massive Kobe hater you are. Saying Kobe wasn't a superstar on the lakers in 04 is laughable. He was already better than shaq at that point and surpassed him in 03 actually. Kobe was a superstar for 01 until he tore his Achilles. The upset against Detroit does get talked about often. I brought it up earlier today and said that it counts against him. The team was nowhere near 100% but we can ignore that because it doesn't fit your narrative. As to why would LBJ have likely lost that game 7? Because contrary to what you just said, he absolutely does not make his teammates better. The data clearly show this is false. He makes role players better, not his star teammates. Wade, Bosh, Love and Kyrie were not better for playing with LBJ, quite the contrary.

  13. #5323
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    wow you really think bosh is a top 10 player lol
    He was in 2010 when he joined the heat.

  14. #5324
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    Yep I was just being sarcastic. Posters trying to make it seem like Shaq won the 3peat all by himself.
    when did anyone say shaq won it all by himself? just because kobe is robin doesnt mean he didnt have value nor does it mean he didnt deserve the rings... he does. He is a 5 time champion... 2 of which he has being the true teams superstar... when trying to compare him to lebron it warrants bringing this up because lebron never had the luxury of being a number 2 or having anywhere near the unstoppable force on his team like Shaq outside of himself of course... this context matters... like it will matter when lebron declines and if he goes to a team and tries to win a ring like a malone etc and if he succeeds he will be a 4 time champ but none of us will say well he has 4 rings and that 4th ring should def now put him over jordan because of the overall body of work... nope. That 4th ring will now have less value when discussing whom is better than whom.

  15. #5325
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    For the love of God can we stop with the Chris Bosh was a top 10 player nonsense?
    No, in 2010 I think he was a top 10 player or at least in the discussion for top 10. Much more so than Duncan was in 2013 or 2014.

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