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  1. #5296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yep, as I said, they Celtics were injured and that changed the course of their trajectory. That wasn't the same big 3 from earlier.
    Injured? In 2011 Pierce and Allen played 80 games and Garnett played 71. They all played in the playoff series. They lost while healthy.

    How could a healthy Celtics big 3 lose to the Heat and the old and broken down Spurs (as you keep implying) have defeated them?

  2. #5297
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Yeah, PSD is sure known for it's Jordan hate

    Are you forgetting we literally had to introduce the "Jordan Rule" into All-Time Redrafts because of how highly people viewed him?
    It's not Jordan hate, it's Jordan demystifying. It helps with current rhetorics.

    And we did have that no Jordan once or twice iirc, but we've had Jordan eligible and only once I think it succeeded. People kinda refused to vote for Jordan teams that had great talent but weren't following the 90s Bulls recipe.

    And I think once or twice Lebron was picked #1 or #2 in the all time draft. And that was back in 2012 or 2014 or something. Which felt really weird but most actually loved those picks. If anything, there was an obvious Lebron fetish on PSD since forever. I don't know how it was pre-2010, but I'm assumimg he was still rated very high, in an all time scale.

  3. #5298
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Dude I just gave you the ages. Bowen was 36. Finley was 34. Barry was 36 and Horry was 37. They were old by that point.

    Yes the Spurs had 2 guys that were 36 and 37, so in your mind that means they were completely broken down and old as a team? Not by a long shot.
    Yep, so you're saying that the 08 bench was younger than 37? Good, glad we agree. Also, when did I say the 14 spurs were broken down? I said they were basically role players at that point. That's different from being broken down. Manu absolutely was a role player in 2014, no two ways about that and had been a role player for a few years at that point. Duncan was a borderline all-star caliber player (I would put him on par to what Lamar Odom was with the lakers during their title runs, except Odom was a lot younger and more dynamic because of his age). Very productive? Yes, super talented player at 37? Heck no and it's not even close.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 05-26-2020 at 03:58 PM.

  4. #5299
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    So now we're supposed to trust you when you can't even read? This is what's wrong with people like you: You can't even understand what other people are typing in plain English but want to convince us that you're more educated or informed than someone.

    Valade never claimed that Duncan made the All-NBA team in 2014. He stated that he made the All-NBA team in 2013 but I do see he was incorrect about the All-NBA defensive first team in 2013. It was the second team. But regular season awards =/= being a better defender. Ibaka was NOT a better defender than Duncan but because the OKC were a hotter team and Ibaka was playing well, they awarded Ibaka the slot. I can't fault them for that but I can guarantee you no GM would take Ibaka over Duncan in the playoffs for defensive purposes. Duncan was still an elite defender - probably a top-five defensive player during those years.

    I love how you mention numbers when it comes to Duncan but you are likely the first person to discredit LeBron under the same scenario. You are right, Duncan's greatest individual success in terms of stats came when he was younger. The problem is, you're not understanding that Duncan, on a PER36 minute basis, was still an effective/elite player. Naturally, his advanced stats won't look as great because of a declined role but he was still very much the Duncan we knew.



    Here are the numbers for you... On a per minute basis, Duncan was still performing in line with his career averages. So not only are you ignorant, you are a simple-minded individual who lacks critical thinking skills so I will assume, based on your line of thinking, you aren't very bright.
    Go to the very first page on this thread and you can see where I rank Lebron. That will tell you how I see lebron. In the past I had a different opinion on James but itís because it was ďus vs themĒ. I didnít make the war I just saw the shots fired and went in gun blazing. No excuses but Lebron is my guy now.

    Iím really only here to help the confused people on Kobe. That is all. If me talking Kobe up makes you feel a certain way then thatís on you and everyone else that is confused on Kobe.

    As for Duncan he always been a star player. I never said other wise. I was just showing what Kobe did when they met in the playoffs.

  5. #5300
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    It's not Jordan hate, it's Jordan demystifying. It helps with current rhetorics.

    And we did have that no Jordan once or twice iirc, but we've had Jordan eligible and only once I think it succeeded. People kinda refused to vote for Jordan teams that had great talent but weren't following the 90s Bulls recipe.
    Yeah it's tough to build a Jordan team when your 3rd round pick goes from top of the round to the bottom.

    I won with Jordan but it was the first year of an auction league so I won both Jordan and Hakeem. Well actually I won Jordan and Kareem but I wouldn't have had enough money to complete the team so I traded Kareem and his higher salary for Hakeem.

    I won Jordan by $1. I bid $100,000,001 and the other guy bid $100,000,000 lol.

  6. #5301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yep, so you're saying that they were younger than 37? Good, glad we agree. Also, when did I say they were broken down? I said they were basically role players at that point. That's different from being broken down. Manu absolutely was a role player no two ways about that and had been a role player for a few years at that point. Duncan was a borderline all-star caliber player (I would put him on par to what Lamar Odom was with the lakers during their title runs). Very productive? Yes, super talented player at 37? Heck no and it's not even close.
    If the best point you can make is "so they were 36 and not 37!", you're flailing lol

  7. #5302
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    If the best point you can make is "so they were 36 and not 37!", you're flailing lol
    The best point I can make (about the 14 spurs) is that half of their core was old, a shell of the players that they used to be, and were basically role players, and for this reason were not this super talented team.

  8. #5303
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    I had some fun redraft teams.

    I had a LeBron team but blew it up. It was Mookie Blaylock, Reggie Miller, LeBron James, I can't remember the PF, and Dwight.

    My best team was probably Chauncey Billups, Clyde Drexler, Kawhi Leonard, Willis Reed, Bill Walton but I blew that team up (I should not have).

    I went to the 2nd round with Jason Kidd, Joe Dumars, Elgin Baylor, Bob McAdoo and Bill Walton.

    I also won a no-MVP league with Gary Payton, Sidney Moncrief, Dave DeBusschere, and Marc Gasol.

  9. #5304
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    Well, one season with my co I think we had Devin Harris, Aaron Afflalo, Andre Iguodala, Pau Gasol and De Juan Blair. And we finished runners up Don't remember which season it was, probably 2011.

  10. #5305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    Go to the very first page on this thread and you can see where I rank Lebron. That will tell you how I see lebron. In the past I had a different opinion on James but itís because it was ďus vs themĒ. I didnít make the war I just saw the shots fired and went in gun blazing. No excuses but Lebron is my guy now.

    Iím really only here to help the confused people on Kobe. That is all. If me talking Kobe up makes you feel a certain way then thatís on you and everyone else that is confused on Kobe.

    As for Duncan he always been a star player. I never said other wise. I was just showing what Kobe did when they met in the playoffs.
    It's very nice of you to finally give LeBron credit when he's on your team. I vividly remember you and other Lakers fans discrediting LeBron calling him leflop, lechoke, etc., but my oh my, how the narrative changes when he's on your team. Is it because you're finally seeing that lebron is every bit as good, if not better, now that you're watching him up-close and personal?

    I'm not confused about Kobe. I don't know who even brought Kobe up here. My point on this is that Tim Duncan still performed at an elite level when he was on the court. His production per 36 minutes (which is a valid usage since he played 30 minutes per game) shows that as Duncan got older, he was still capable of putting up effective numbers and impact. Of course Duncan had greater numbers as an individual player in the early 00's. He played more minutes and had more shots given to him. But he's always been that polished player who was an elite defensive player regardless of his age. I'd take 2013-2014 Tim Duncan on my team any day.

  11. #5306
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    'Duncan wasn't really one of the best players in 2013 because he had been absent from all-nba teams for prior years.'


    Me: Okay, so can you explain how Bosh only made one all-nba team in his entire career (none while playing for the Heat) but is supposedly a top 10 player during his Heat days according to you? Can you also explain how Love had never made an all-NBA team since 2014 but is an elite player to you? Can you explain how Kyrie made only one all-NBA team (third) in his entire career dating to his pre-boston days but LeBron supposedly has the most stacked rosters?

    small_moves03: yeah because all-nba teams doesn't mean anything and lebron devalues his teammates by turning them into glorified players.





    When you change your arguments based on who the player is, that is called being a hater. This dude is a hater who is trying to portray himself as a fair basketball fan.

  12. #5307
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Well, one season with my co I think we had Devin Harris, Aaron Afflalo, Andre Iguodala, Pau Gasol and De Juan Blair. And we finished runners up Don't remember which season it was, probably 2011.
    You mean the regular redraft and not the all-time I hope lol. I won a regular redraft with Jose Calderon, Wesley Matthews, Chandler Parsons, LaMarcus Aldridge and Roy Hibbert lol.

  13. #5308
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    'Duncan wasn't really one of the best players in 2013 because he had been absent from all-nba teams for prior years.'


    Me: Okay, so can you explain how Bosh only made one all-nba team in his entire career (none while playing for the Heat) but is supposedly a top 10 player during his Heat days according to you? Can you also explain how Love had never made an all-NBA team since 2014 but is an elite player to you? Can you explain how Kyrie made only one all-NBA team (third) in his entire career dating to his pre-boston days but LeBron supposedly has the most stacked rosters?

    small_moves03: yeah because all-nba teams doesn't mean anything and lebron devalues his teammates by turning them into glorified players.





    When you change your arguments based on who the player is, that is called being a hater. This dude is a hater who is trying to portray himself as a fair basketball fan.
    No, Duncan wasn't one of the best players in 13 because he had steadily declined for several years and was no longer producing at an elite level (the lack of all-nba teams was simply a byproduct of that). Him putting up good numbers is different from being an elite player. Glad we agree on what happens to stars when they play with LBJ.

  14. #5309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Maybe you should grow a pair and ask me yourself. He demanded a trade because the lakers had multiple chances to bring in talent and continued to pass. I don't hold it against LBJ for artificially stacking his team with talent and creating a talent vacuum as a result of that, I hold it against him that with those prime players he didn't meet the standards that this move created for him and lost twice to far less talented teams. Dirk beat the heat with zero other all-star caliber players. The spurs did the same with a lesser star in Tony Parker.
    i did ask you multiple days ago multiple times and it was crickets... i even went on to post and link articles from kobe himself saying so and what people thought about that etc... it was a ***** move and it is far worse then lebron going and being a number 1 in miami... lebron was never gifted talent all his career like kobe and never demanded a trade because he didnt have it.

    I even went on to ask in a game 7 or any big series win was lebron ever the 3rd best player on his team????? go check that game 7 against the celtics where kobe was carrier by metta and gasol.

  15. #5310
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    Itís interesting that he touts Bosh as a top 10 player before and during his Heat stint and talks about how not good Duncan was by that time when:

    Bosh has only received MVP consideration twice: finishing 7th in 2007 and 12th in 2010.

    Duncan finished 7th in MVP voting in 2013 and 12th in 2014.

    Bosh has only made the All-NBA team once: 2nd team in 2007

    Duncan made the All-NBA 1st team in 2013 and the All-NBA 3rd team in 2015.


    So of course BigMoves thinks Bosh was better than Duncan during this time...

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