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  1. #5281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Because the circumstances are different. Pretty silly logic to say two teams accomplished the same thing and therefore they are the same. It doesn't matter to me whether Duncan made first team or not in 13, he didn't make it in 14 and both version of Duncan were a shell of the player he was in 08. Duncan not really one of the best players in 2013. He had been absent from the all-NBA team altogether for a few years at that point and then didn't make it the following year. Even if we agree that Duncan was one of the best players in 2013, the team still wouldn't compare talent wise to the heat...AND he certainly wasn't that in 2014 so it's all irrelevant.
    What was so different about the circumstances?

    And yes, Duncan did make it the following year. He was All-NBA 3rd team in 2015 (and All-Defensive 2nd team).

    And the argument was you saying that the Heat were better comparatively talentwise to the Spurs than the Celtics/Lakers were to the rest of the league in the 80's. I'm saying that is not true. Very clearly.

    The fact you have to resort to opinions nobody else holds about how bad the Spurs were shows that.

  2. #5282
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Yes, in 08 they had a great bench of very old players. You can't talk about how amazing all the 37 year olds were on the 08 bench and then talk about how old and broken down all the 37 year olds were for the 14 Spurs. Be consistent.

    Also, the idea that Duncan was a shell of himself is just laughably stupid. He made the All-NBA 1st team in 2013. He made the All-NBA 3rd team in 2015. Duncan's per36 stats in 2008 were 20.5 PPG and 12 RPG. In 2014 they were 21 PPG and 12 RPG.

    He was not some broken down version. He was still an excellent player. Stop with the nonsense.
    Sheesh dude, it's not that complicated of an argument. it's not a lack of consistent on my part, it's a lack of you following what is being said. A 37 year old bench is a lot different than having a 37-year old core. In one version you have the old veterans playing supporting roles to the star players in their primes. in the other version, you have the old players who are no longer stars having to fill a leading role...massive difference. Not a lack of consistency, a failure in logic on your part.

  3. #5283
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    Could you imagine people going to this length to dismiss Lebron as a top 5 NBA player? It frankly amazes me but you guys who do it are the life blood of shows like First Take and Undisputed. You give Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith lucrative careers when they are undeserving of such.

  4. #5284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    One, thats laughable that they are on that list...two, I never said that they weren't that good as a team. I said that they weren't all that talented. That's a lot different. They played very well. They were a very good team. They lacked talent though compared to other championship teams.
    Were they as good or better than all the teams Magic and Bird faced from 84-88? Because according to everyone else they were.

  5. #5285
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    What was so different about the circumstances?

    And yes, Duncan did make it the following year. He was All-NBA 3rd team in 2015 (and All-Defensive 2nd team).

    And the argument was you saying that the Heat were better comparatively talentwise to the Spurs than the Celtics/Lakers were to the rest of the league in the 80's. I'm saying that is not true. Very clearly.

    The fact you have to resort to opinions nobody else holds about how bad the Spurs were shows that.
    What was different about the circumstances is that the Celtics ran into the lakers (who demolished a far better spurs team than the spurs you're so proud of) and then the heat...and also had injuries that kind of cut their run short.

    Nope, I'm referring to 2014 in which Duncan certainly did not make anything because he was a good role player. And why don't you go ahead and show me exactly where it shows that no one holds the opinion that the talent gap between the heat and spurs was less than the talent gap between the lakers and Celtics.

  6. #5286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Sheesh dude, it's not that complicated of an argument. it's not a lack of consistent on my part, it's a lack of you following what is being said. A 37 year old bench is a lot different than having a 37-year old core. In one version you have the old veterans playing supporting roles to the star players in their primes. in the other version, you have the old players who are no longer stars having to fill a leading role...massive difference. Not a lack of consistency, a failure in logic on your part.
    Except the 14 Spurs didn't have a 37 year old core. Their starters were 22, 26, 29, 31 and 37. They had two contributors were over the age of 31. And you keep calling them role players.

    Those 2014 Spurs were not as old and decrepit as you're making out.

  7. #5287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Because the circumstances are different. Pretty silly logic to say two teams accomplished the same thing and therefore they are the same. It doesn't matter to me whether Duncan made first team or not in 13, he didn't make it in 14 and both version of Duncan were a shell of the player he was in 08. Duncan not really one of the best players in 2013. He had been absent from the all-NBA team altogether for a few years at that point and then didn't make it the following year. Even if we agree that Duncan was one of the best players in 2013, the team still wouldn't compare talent wise to the heat...AND he certainly wasn't that in 2014 so it's all irrelevant.
    Duncan made the first team in 2013 but he wasn't one of the best players? If it wasn't for Ray Allen tying the game in game 6 of the 2013 Finals, Duncan would have been the Finals MVP. Yet, he wasn't one of the best players? Are you that confused now that you're just typing gibberish? You seem so far off mentally that even your posts seem to get more lazy as you try and dig your way out of this hole of mediocrity you have created. Okay, you know what, let's see how you dig your way out of this:

    Bosh was never an All-NBA player when Bron played with him. Bosh was only an All-NBA player for one time in his entire career. Yet, how many times have you typed here that Bosh was a lot better than people give him credit for?

    Love never made an All-NBA team since 2014. He was never an All-NBA player playing with the Cavs.

    Kyrie Irving only made one all-NBA team for the Cavs (third team).

    So by your logic, LeBron actually didn't have a stacked roster.

    I completely agree, then! You definitely changed my mind. Let's see you dig your way out of that one, buddy. I know you will try and it would only further implicate you as a biased hater.

  8. #5288
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Could you imagine people going to this length to dismiss Lebron as a top 5 NBA player? It frankly amazes me but you guys who do it are the life blood of shows like First Take and Undisputed. You give Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith lucrative careers when they are undeserving of such.
    To be fair to Stephen A., he has given LeBron credit in stating he was the 2nd best of all-time. Skip on the other hand knows that his shtick is to hate on LeBron. The IRS should charge Skip a LeBron tax.

  9. #5289
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Except the 14 Spurs didn't have a 37 year old core. Their starters were 22, 26, 29, 31 and 37. They had two contributors were over the age of 31. And you keep calling them role players.

    Those 2014 Spurs were not as old and decrepit as you're making out.
    Duncan and Manu were part of the core that you guys keep touting. Tim Duncan was 37 and Manu was 36. That's half of this super talented core that you guys keep talking about. The 08 bench also wasn't 37. These guys were role players and weren't producing at anywhere near the level they were back in 08.

  10. #5290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    What was different about the circumstances is that the Celtics ran into the lakers (who demolished a far better spurs team than the spurs you're so proud of) and then the heat...and also had injuries that kind of cut their run short.

    Nope, I'm referring to 2014 in which Duncan certainly did not make anything because he was a good role player. And why don't you go ahead and show me exactly where it shows that no one holds the opinion that the talent gap between the heat and spurs was less than the talent gap between the lakers and Celtics.
    And the Spurs ran into the same Heat, except they actually beat them. When the Celtics big 3 lost to the Heat they were literally all younger than Duncan and Manu were in 14. So the Celtics lose to the Heat big 3 and the Spurs defeat the Heat big 3 and in your mind this means the Celtics were clearly better?

  11. #5291
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Except the 14 Spurs didn't have a 37 year old core. Their starters were 22, 26, 29, 31 and 37. They had two contributors were over the age of 31. And you keep calling them role players.

    Those 2014 Spurs were not as old and decrepit as you're making out.
    And even if they were, their system and game wasn't predicated on young talent that had insane levels of athleticism. Parker, Manu, and Duncan had as much athleticism as Andrea Bargnani. Pop was able to win with mediocre bench players because his sytem and coaching was always above every other team. Having four hall-of-famers on your team, regardless of their age, just made it ten times easier.

  12. #5292
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Duncan made the first team in 2013 but he wasn't one of the best players? If it wasn't for Ray Allen tying the game in game 6 of the 2013 Finals, Duncan would have been the Finals MVP. Yet, he wasn't one of the best players? Are you that confused now that you're just typing gibberish? You seem so far off mentally that even your posts seem to get more lazy as you try and dig your way out of this hole of mediocrity you have created. Okay, you know what, let's see how you dig your way out of this:

    Bosh was never an All-NBA player when Bron played with him. Bosh was only an All-NBA player for one time in his entire career. Yet, how many times have you typed here that Bosh was a lot better than people give him credit for?

    Love never made an All-NBA team since 2014. He was never an All-NBA player playing with the Cavs.

    Kyrie Irving only made one all-NBA team for the Cavs (third team).

    So by your logic, LeBron actually didn't have a stacked roster.

    I completely agree, then! You definitely changed my mind. Let's see you dig your way out of that one, buddy. I know you will try and it would only further implicate you as a biased hater.
    No, guys make those teams all the time and they're not necessarily elite players. Chandler made one of those when he was not a top 20 player. Guys often get rewarded.

    And yes, we all agree that LBJ turns superstars into glorified players, so obviously his teammates accolades diminish when they play alongside him.

  13. #5293
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    And the Spurs ran into the same Heat, except they actually beat them. When the Celtics big 3 lost to the Heat they were literally all younger than Duncan and Manu were in 14. So the Celtics lose to the Heat big 3 and the Spurs defeat the Heat big 3 and in your mind this means the Celtics were clearly better?
    Yep, as I said, they Celtics were injured and that changed the course of their trajectory. That wasn't the same big 3 from earlier.

  14. #5294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Duncan and Manu were part of the core that you guys keep touting. Tim Duncan was 37 and Manu was 36. That's half of this super talented core that you guys keep talking about. The 08 bench also wasn't 37. These guys were role players and weren't producing at anywhere near the level they were back in 08.
    Dude I just gave you the ages. Bowen was 36. Finley was 34. Barry was 36 and Horry was 37. They were old by that point.

    Yes the Spurs had 2 guys that were 36 and 37, so in your mind that means they were completely broken down and old as a team? Not by a long shot.

  15. #5295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No, guys make those teams all the time and they're not necessarily elite players. Chandler made one of those when he was not a top 20 player. Guys often get rewarded.

    And yes, we all agree that LBJ turns superstars into glorified players, so obviously his teammates accolades diminish when they play alongside him.
    And yet, Tim Duncan doesn't make it and you're saying he wasn't good in 2014. You are terrible. Man, I am done with you. You type way too much and have nothing valuable to add. go find something better to do.

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