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  1. #4951
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    And no Lebron did not choke. They played like that all season long he differed to Wade and it seem like They wanted Pat to coach. Did kobe choke when he decided not to shoot in the middle of the playoffs? No. What about when West was sticking his mom, Or the Rumored Shannon Brown Pau girlfriend thing.They simple had other things on their minds. If he did not play like that leading up to Miami why would he all of a sudden cant play? Maybe you will need for a Last dance type to figure out what really happened.

  2. #4952
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    As for Detroit vs GSW. GSW would beat the breaks off Detroit.

  3. #4953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    They worked just fine up until 2003. Things finally came to a head in the 04 season and it spilled onto the court, but before that shaq and kobe worked really well together.
    Yeah they worked well, but no version of that team with Was ever going to allow Shaq to average 50 with Kobe in the team. As much as Lebron dominates the ball, Kobe is known for going into ISI mode more than any other player until James Harden. Itís well documented that all of his teamates were mad at him for ball hogging and even Phil was pissed by his constant ball hogging. They beat teams because they were just to talented not to, but they didnít play to there optimal levels even at there best because Kobe throughout his career played to much hero ball and forced to many bad shots.

  4. #4954
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    Lakers would also would have destroyed Pistons.

  5. #4955
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    Kobe in 5, maybe sweep.

    Shaq needs someone to get him the ball down low to be effective. You trust Shaq putting the ball on the floor from the 3 point line with Kobe hounding him? You also think Shaq could guard Kobe on the perimeter?
    why would he need someone to feed him the ball if he only has to worry about 1 midget?

  6. #4956
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Wait, what? I assume you misread because you said they had trouble with OKC. Iím talking the Warriors WITH Durant. They would have beaten all of those teams you mentioned.



    This reeks of excuses. I wonder if the roles were reversed what youíd say.
    I don't think the Warriors with KD would beat those teams, at least not all of them. They would be competitive series, but again, I think the warriors would struggle against teams that could slow the game down, that could execute in the half court, and that had dominant bigs who could score inside. Again though, this is pure conjecture because we never saw them play a team like that and we will never see those matchups.

    I don't know what excuses I'm making here. To say Kobe never made the finals without Shaq or Pau doesn't really mean anything. Kobe won back-to-back titles with Pau, who was a top 15-20 payer in the league and was nowhere near being a superstar and that was the only star player he had during those runs. To say a player never made it to the finals without a good team doesn't say much. Many of LBJ's teams that made the finals would likely be eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round out west (and some of those teams would've struggled to make the playoffs in the west).
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 05-25-2020 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #4957
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Yeah they worked well, but no version of that team with Was ever going to allow Shaq to average 50 with Kobe in the team. As much as Lebron dominates the ball, Kobe is known for going into ISI mode more than any other player until James Harden. Itís well documented that all of his teamates were mad at him for ball hogging and even Phil was pissed by his constant ball hogging. They beat teams because they were just to talented not to, but they didnít play to there optimal levels even at there best because Kobe throughout his career played to much hero ball and forced to many bad shots.
    You're talking about pre-2001 Kobe. 2001 Kobe and beyond didn't really do that too much and he especially didn't do that during the playoffs (in 2004 that happened in the finals some, but that was more of an exception).

  8. #4958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I don't think the Warriors with KD would beat those teams, at least not all of them. They would be competitive series, but again, I think the warriors would struggle against teams that could slow the game down, that could execute in the half court, and that had dominant bigs who could score inside. Again though, this is pure conjecture because we never saw them play a team like that and we will never see those matchups.

    I don't know what excuses I'm making here. To say Kobe never made the finals without Shaq or Pau doesn't really mean anything. Kobe won back-to-back titles with Pau, who was a top 15-20 payer in the league and was nowhere near being a superstar and that was the only star player he had during those runs. To say a player never made it to the finals without a good team doesn't say much. Many of LBJ's teams that made the finals would likely be eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round out west (and some of those teams would've struggled to make the playoffs in the west).
    GSW had a traditional Center so they could play in the half court they also had west a decent mid range shooter at PF. GSW was one of the best teams in NBA history.

    Well if you feel they would not get pass the 1st or 2nd round out west why you surprise they lost in the finals if thats the case?

    Kobe was a stud with or without the triangle. Thing is without it he never won. So who knows what would of unfolded if he never did.

    Sorry but pau was a top center. Being a superstar has nothing to do with it. Point is no other team in the league boast Odom, Pau, Bynum. Lakers front court in addition to Kobe is the reason Lakers won. Without Pau/Odom chemistry Lakers were not going to win even with a insane performance from Kobe. you would not survive a 7 game series playing hero. That is called a first round exit team at best.
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-25-2020 at 11:17 AM.

  9. #4959
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    GSW had a traditional Center so they could play in the half court they also had west a decent mid range shooter. GSW was one of the best teams in NBA history.

    Well if you feel they would not get pass the 1st or 2nd round out west why you surprise they lost in the finals if thats the case?

    Kobe was a stud with or without the triangle. Thing is without it he never won. So who knows what would of unfolded if he never did.

    Sorry but pau was a top center. Being a superstar has nothing to do with it. Point is no other team in the league boast Odom, Pau, Bynum. Lakers front court in addition to Kobe is the reason Lakers won. Without Pau/Odom chemistry Lakers were not going to win even with a insane performance from Kobe. you would not survive a 7 game series playing hero.
    Yes the warriors could play traditional ball, but my point was that when they did that they were a vastly weaker team and that is why they were susceptible to the things I mentioned. Also, who said anything about playing hero ball??? The point was that Pau wasn't some super elite player that Kobe won with and he also wasn't even really a true center. He was a PF who would play PF because Bynum was out most of the time.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 05-25-2020 at 11:27 AM.

  10. #4960
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    Man, looking back on those two Kobe/Pau championships makes me sad about KG. After they won the title I think a lot of people forget that KG missed the whole next playoffs. ORL beat Boston in 7 games that year, then went on to beat CLE to get to the Finals. The next year, with KG back, BOS beat ORL and CLE in the playoffs. So I feel strongly they would have done just that the year before with a healthy KG.

    While KG came back, he really wasn't the same player. Don't get me wrong, he was still great, but he wasn't the BIG TICKET anymore. When he came back he was more Rasheed Wallace than he was prime KG. He didn't have the athleticism at the rim anymore. He was still a strong team defender but not the dominant help defender he was before. And on offense he was pretty much a jump shooter only because he was never someone who used strength to finish inside, always athleticism.

    If KG doesn't hurt his knee I think Boston gets another couple years of Big Ticket KG and those BOS/LA teams play 3 straight years in the finals. The 2010 Finals was awesome as it was and I think KG at closer to peak levels would have hyped it up even more. And instead of that boring ORL-LA gentlemen's sweep I think it would have been another epic battle.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  11. #4961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yes the warriors could play traditional ball, but my point was that when they did that they were a vastly weaker team and that is why they were susceptible to the things I mentioned. Also, who said anything about playing hero ball??? The point was that Pau wasn't some super elite player the Kobe won with and he also wasn't even really a true center. He was a PF who would play PF because Bynum was out most of the time.
    No he was not a HOF type center but he lead Grizzlies to the playoffs and at the time him and Duncan fit the mold perfect as skilled bigs making the transition to center. Meaning when stacked among players of all time will not be high but During that time he was a top 5 big in the league even out playing Howard the best big at the time. The moment Pau set on the floor him and Odom chemistry was good. Pau made plays from the center position. He was not some guy out there that could be replaced by anyone.

  12. #4962
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Lolololol @ they win more with Melo...Chronz are you reading this? Defend your boy
    he's right. tmac makes those finals runs too.

  13. #4963
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    No he was not a HOF type center but he lead Grizzlies to the playoffs and at the time him and Duncan fit the mold perfect as skilled bigs making the transition to center. Meaning when stacked among players of all time will not be high but During that time he was a top 5 big in the league even out playing Howard the best big at the time. The moment Pau set on the floor him and Odom chemistry was good. Pau made plays from the center position. He was not some guy out there that could be replaced by anyone.
    When did I say Pau could be replaced by anyone? I just said that Pau wasn't an elite superstar. He was around a top 15-20 guy, a case could be made he was in the top 10, but it's a lot different to play alongside a superstar.

  14. #4964
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Man, looking back on those two Kobe/Pau championships makes me sad about KG. After they won the title I think a lot of people forget that KG missed the whole next playoffs. ORL beat Boston in 7 games that year, then went on to beat CLE to get to the Finals. The next year, with KG back, BOS beat ORL and CLE in the playoffs. So I feel strongly they would have done just that the year before with a healthy KG.

    While KG came back, he really wasn't the same player. Don't get me wrong, he was still great, but he wasn't the BIG TICKET anymore. When he came back he was more Rasheed Wallace than he was prime KG. He didn't have the athleticism at the rim anymore. He was still a strong team defender but not the dominant help defender he was before. And on offense he was pretty much a jump shooter only because he was never someone who used strength to finish inside, always athleticism.

    If KG doesn't hurt his knee I think Boston gets another couple years of Big Ticket KG and those BOS/LA teams play 3 straight years in the finals. The 2010 Finals was awesome as it was and I think KG at closer to peak levels would have hyped it up even more. And instead of that boring ORL-LA gentlemen's sweep I think it would have been another epic battle.
    Yep, that would've been really epic and it would've put a conclusive ending to that short rivalry between those teams. As is, they both beat each other in the finals. The lakers could be said to have won the mini-rivalry since they won 2 (a back-to-back) and Boston 1, but it would've been nice to at the very least see one more show down between them to get a definitive conclusion.

  15. #4965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yes the warriors could play traditional ball, but my point was that when they did that they were a vastly weaker team and that is why they were susceptible to the things I mentioned. Also, who said anything about playing hero ball??? The point was that Pau wasn't some super elite player that Kobe won with and he also wasn't even really a true center. He was a PF who would play PF because Bynum was out most of the time.
    Maybe but they were more skilled and that counts for something. And they had the talent to play both styles. Just think a better Kings team.

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