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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    None of those teams were rebuilding team dude. The spurs were contenders when Duncan joined the team and then they added Parker and ginobli to that team. Same with Kawhi (at that point he was a role player though). Duncan was never part of a rebuilding team. Not once. Rebuilding a team means the team is blown up and you basically start over (and you're not going to be very good during that stretch).
    so was the lakers with Ediie, Van, Green, Divac. if that dont count then the list get longer Wade, Lebron, Shaq, etc

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    so was the lakers with Ediie, Van, Green, Divac. if that dont count then the list get longer Wade, Lebron, Shaq, etc
    I have no idea what you are trying to say lol. The lakers rebuilt when shaq left. The core of the team was blown up. Shaq left, fox left, fisher left, shaw was gone, Horry was gone. It was a completely new team built entirely around kobe. Duncan never, ever experienced that. Very few superstars have ever gone through it and then won a championship let alone a back-to-back (I doubt there is one example, at least in recent history).

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I have no idea what you are trying to say lol. The lakers rebuilt when shaq left. The core of the team was blown up. Shaq left, fox left, fisher left, shaw was gone, Horry was gone. It was a completely new team built entirely around kobe. Duncan never, ever experienced that. Very few superstars have ever gone through it and then won a championship let alone a back-to-back (I doubt there is one example, at least in recent history).
    the players Duncan won with David was not the same they came as rookies and not an established player. Kobe went in a rebuilt but Phil was the same coach and they brought back fisher and traded for an established player. so in reality all took place was you replaced Shaq with Pau and the role players.

  4. #394
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    Shaq was not a Rookie he played in Orlando with Penny.

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    the players Duncan won with David was not the same they came as rookies and not an established player. Kobe went in a rebuilt but Phil was the same coach and they brought back fisher and traded for an established player. so in reality all took place was you replaced Shaq with Pau and the role players.
    Sheesh man, I have to repeat myself so many times with you. This is not a debatable point...I'l say it AGAIN...Tim Duncan was at no point, in the entirety of his career, part of a rebuilding team. Rebuilding teams blow up their entire core and usually suck for a long time. For example, we've been rebuilding since kobe tore his achilles in 2013. Kobe retired, Pau was traded. Dwight left, Nash retired. Everyone was gone. We had a bunch of lottery picks Haven't made the playoffs since 2013. In contrast, Duncan never missed the playoffs in his career. The spurs haven't missed the playoffs since 1997. The core has gradually changed. They've never blown up a team, really since 1988 or so. They've gradually replaced players and brought in new guys. They've only missed the playoffs like once in over 30 years or something. There is a massive difference between a team that gets rid of almost all of their rotation players versus one that replaces them gradually.

    How is this so difficult to comprehend? Phil was brought back after Rudy T had heart problems. Fisher was brought back 3 years later. Pau was traded for 2.5 years later after shaq left. We missed the playoffs in 2005 and went to the lottery. We were the 8th seeded team in 2006 and 2007. We brought in entirely new players. Smush, Kwame, Odom, Butler, Chucky Atkins. Drafted Bynum. Drafted Sasha, drafted farmar. It was an entirely new team. Kobe was the only guy who was still there from from 2005-2007. I really don't see how it's hard to see the difference between Kobe's situation and Duncan's. These aren't really debatable points. My position isn't controversial or unique nor does it require any kind of careful reasoning or thinking. This is how these situations have been classified in the media, and accurately so, because kobe was rebuilding situation and Duncan was not. Pretty black and white here.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Shaq was not a Rookie he played in Orlando with Penny.
    Shaq joined an up and coming laker team that had a core in place. They were tough outs in the playoffs with young players who were up and coming. Rebuilding means the team is blown up and everyone is new and usually suck. How is this so hard to follow lol

  7. #397
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    An example of rebuilding would be if everyone left except AD and we started over from scratch. It would not be if we gradually replace players as guys age.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Shaq joined an up and coming laker team that had a core in place. They were tough outs in the playoffs with young players who were up and coming. Rebuilding means the team is blown up and everyone is new and usually suck. How is this so hard to follow lol
    I dont get whats the huge difference.

    the foundation of both teams are the same. even if one break up and rejoined a few years later. technically Lakers did break up and rebuild but rejoined with Same coach, same system and got rid of those players. Vs rebuilding but coach Star remained intact. Both teams rebuild but Duncan was able to keep the team afloat.

    Duncan joined a playoff team formed twin towers and won.

    Kobe, Shaq joined a playoff team and took years to win before bringing in Phill and making other moves. I get that.

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I dont get whats the huge difference.

    the foundation of both teams are the same. even if one break up and rejoined a few years later. technically Lakers did break up and rebuild but rejoined with Same coach, same system and got rid of those players. Vs rebuilding but coach Star remained intact. Both teams rebuild but Duncan was able to keep the team afloat.

    Duncan joined a playoff team formed twin towers and won.

    Kobe, Shaq joined a playoff team and took years to win before bringing in Phill and making other moves. I get that.
    It doesn't matter if the same coach is in place or not. It's that the team is entirely overhauled. How is that difficult to see??? How did the spurs rebuild?? Tony Parker was the best player on the team in 2014. Most of the core from the 1999 championship with the spurs was in place when they won in 2003 (to which most of the core pieces from the subsequent championships had already joined the team). This is literally absurd man. AGAIN...rebuilding means that the team is blown up (i.e., almost all of the core players are no longer a part of the team). OKC right now, they are in rebuild mode because most of their core is now gone. We've been in rebuild mode since 2013 because our entire core is gone from that stretch. Duncan never experienced a situation where he had a bunch of new teammates and most of them sucked. He saw guys get gradually replaced. That is different than completely replacing almost EVERYONE. That is the defining feature. I've never in my entire life heard someone try to argue that Duncan was part of a rebuilding spurs team. This is probably the most absurd thing you have ever posted and that is saying a lot lol. Sheesh dude lol
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 10-20-2019 at 03:24 PM.

  10. #400
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    Well i am not sure what is retooling vs rebuilding is it the same just worded differently? If that means getting rid of all players including the star or reconstructing around the star.

    just a quick question Did Miami rebuild after Shaq, Morning, Wade, coach Pat, etc? Is Bosh, Lebron, wade, coach Eric etc. Is that retooled or rebuild?
    Last edited by ldawg; 10-20-2019 at 08:15 PM.

  11. #401
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    Last edited by ldawg; 10-20-2019 at 08:13 PM.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Well i am not sure what is retooling vs rebuilding is it the same just worded differently? If that means getting rid of all players including the star or reconstructing around the star.

    just a quick question Did Miami rebuild after Shaq, Morning, Wade, coach Pat, etc? Is Bosh, Lebron, wade, coach Eric etc. Is that retooled or rebuild?
    Rebuilding is when a team is completely overhauled. The spurs have never rebuilt. They've always simply continued to update their roster and made gradual changes. They add a piece here, trade a player there, sign a player and after a few years the roster begins to change, but it is very gradual. Miami would probably count as a rebuild, although that one was a little different because LBJ and Bosh came over because LBJ and Wade wanted to team up. As we've seen, stars don't usually want to go play on a really bad team so it usually take a lot longer to rebuild because teams are forced to draft good players and wait for them to develop.

  13. #403
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    That's a clever title, not a true rebuild. Like I've said, when a team rebuilds, there will be a ton of overturn on the roster. Lots of new teammates over night. Slowly changing the roster over 15 years doesn't count as a rebuild lol
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 10-20-2019 at 09:04 PM.

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    That's a clever title, not a true rebuild. Like I've said, when a team rebuilds, there will be a ton of overturn on the roster. Lots of new teammates over night. Slowly changing the roster over 15 years doesn't count as a rebuild lol
    i was more referencing from twin towers team to building another championship team from the draft with Parker, Manu. Sure the rebuild was slow and connecting and they never tanked going into a full blast rebuild trading away the star player.

    Lakers rebuild was different, Phil took some time off. Rebuilding did not go as smoothly and Kobe grew frustrated especially with the often injured Bynum. The team struggled. its not until they traded for Pau they returned to a legit contender. That team had two players from the 3 peat with Fisher rejoining the team.

    Phill 5 rings with LA
    Kobe 5 rings
    fisher 5 rings
    Pau 2 traded
    Odom 2 traded in shaq deal

    Pop 5 rings
    Duncan 5 rings
    Manu 3 rings drafted 2nd round
    Parker 4 rings drafted
    Last edited by ldawg; 10-20-2019 at 09:50 PM.

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    i was more referencing from twin towers team to building another championship team from the draft with Parker, Manu. Sure the rebuild was slow and connecting and they never tanked going into a full blast rebuild trading away the star player.

    Lakers rebuild was different, Phil took some time off. Rebuilding did not go as smoothly and Kobe grew frustrated especially with the often injured Bynum. The team struggled. its not until they traded for Pau they returned to a legit contender. That team had two players from the 3 peat with Fisher rejoining the team.

    Phill 5 rings with LA
    Kobe 5 rings
    fisher 5 rings
    Pau 2 traded
    Odom 2 traded in shaq deal

    Pop 5 rings
    Duncan 5 rings
    Manu 3 rings drafted 2nd round
    Parker 4 rings drafted
    It's night and day though between those two franchises and only what the lakers did qualifies as a rebuild. By definition, rebuilds do not go smoothly. You basically suck when you're rebuilding. If you do not suck and your roster is not all that different from one year to the next, you are not rebuilding (because the team has not been overhauled). Rebuilding means the team is no longer competing for a title and is now trying to get back to that. the Celtics rebuilt after pierce, kg, and Allen left. The entire roster was overhauled. What the lakers did was a rebuild. The spurs just kept adding pieces little by little and replacing guys as they got older and retired. Credit to the spurs organization for running the best franchise in the past 30-plus years or so that they've managed to avoid rebuilding.

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