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  1. #2926
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    Yep people tend to latch on to guys during their era. You can actually guess roughly a person age by their favorite player, car, tv show, music, etc
    Last edited by ldawg; 01-24-2020 at 01:36 PM.

  2. #2927
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    vision/defense/dominance? i could go on... i love LB but putting him on the level of lebron is disrespectful at this point

    lebron on defense is other wordly compared to larry with much worse help might i add at times.
    Vision? Hell no. Please, that's heresy.

    Defense is a weird comparison. He's not having more of an effect on the player he was defending as opposed to Larry Bird. That's the only measurable one given how defences during Lebron's prime and peak are in kindergarten levels. He's a better blocker, sure, but that's just one aspect of help defense, not the whole picture.

    Dominance is not a measurable criteria. It's subjective. How do you define dominance? Because Larry Bird was friggin dominant in is day and no one wanted to play against him. With Lebron, not so much. He was more of a second fiddle when "the ball is heated" as we say in Greece, meaning that he's not willing to be holding that hot potato when it matters. That basically means that a defender should be much more worried when Larry Bird has the ball as opposed to Lebron. He lacks that mentality boost and the killer instict to be taken seriously in an all time comparison against some of these guys and it's a major letdown given the hype and the great longevity in his career. If anything, I think had he not joined the Heat along with Wade and Bosh his legacy would probably be similar to Karl Malone. A legend in the sport, a top player in his prime but nowhere near the top 5-10 players ever. But for some reason you guys seem to value rings without any additional context so you're acting as if Lebron is the best thing since Jordan, which he is not. At least not in terms of peak.

    This is also what Lebron James has over Larry Bird. Health and longevity. Neither are factors that would make me pick Lebron over Larry Bird at their peak for a full season or a playoff session.

  3. #2928
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Kobe was a better shooter, dribbler and defender than Clyde. I honestly can't envision a single coach willingly taking Clyde over Kobe. I doubt there are very many coaches that have Clyde in their Top 20 and similarly I don't think there's a single coach that has Kobe outside their top 20.

    As for LeBron/Larry. The fact you think Larry is actually a better defender than LeBron pretty much invalidates any basketball insight you've ever had. Charles Barkley once stated "as long as Larry Bird is in the league I'll only ever be the 2nd worst defensive player in the NBA".

    But I get it, your basketball opinion is the equivalent of an old man on his porch yelling at the young kids to get off his lawn.
    Larry Bird was part of All-Defensive teams in a time where Bobby Jones, McHale, Michael Cooper, Dan Roundfield (notoriously good defender), Larry Nance, Paul Pressey and others were around, plus guys like Moncrief, Dumars and Jordan.
    Sure, Lebron has the edge defensively in the aspect of being more mobile and able to defend guards. Larry Bird has to guard a forward, that's for sure. But he'd do a very good job there. Also, Lebron cannot guard centers. Real centers. So let's let this joke die please. And I'm not sure he could be able to guard the Isiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Russell Webstrook type of PGs either.


    The fact that you diss Larry Bird's defense is showing pure ignorance on your part. Just because he was white and people were in awe of his overall quality? I mean this is **** that you heard all the time. "If Larry Bird was black, he'd be a nobody". Or "he doesn't play defense". Or "he's not athletic". And all that crap.

    Honestly, I love having people who disagree with me tell me these things like what you've posted. It shows how clueless you are about the sport and its players. Hopefully others who read the posts will pick something up and do their own proper research instead of repeating silly propaganda.

    With that being said, there's no way I'd pick peak Lebron James over peak Julius Erving either.

    Put Lebron in the Celtics instead of Larry Bird and they never become that great team. He just doesn't have 'it'. Larry Bird has 'it'. On all parts of the court. Lebron sometimes seems lost and will always look for his teammates to help him out when the situation is too much for him.

    When guys like Worthy say I'd rather guard Jordan than Bird while both these guys are at their prime, you get the point.

    Reggie Miller here on this question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4z6a04dBU
    Pretty much no questions asked, Larry Bird over Lebron James.

    Kareem here says the best he's ever played against was...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh256YNZPXU
    It's not like he didn't play against pretty much anyone that's relevant in the 70s and 80s.


    P.S: Larry Bird was the leader of the best NBA team of all time. 1986 Celtics.


    P.S2. Speak of the devil, Larry Bird on the Lebron vs Kobe argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSWxSfH5WC8

    He says Lebron is (was) the best player in the NBA by far. But if he had to play with either Lebron or Kobe, he'd pick Kobe. Lebron would be a choice to "have fun", Kobe would be a choice to "win". And "win and win and win". Spot on by Larry.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 01-25-2020 at 09:28 AM.

  4. #2929
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    Whether you like it or not, Lebron will mostly be remembered for his freakish athleticism. Kobe will be remembered for his basketball skills. That should conclude any debate.

  5. #2930
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Whether you like it or not, Lebron will mostly be remembered for his freakish athleticism. Kobe will be remembered for his basketball skills. That should conclude any debate.
    Kobe is better at one skill, free throw shooting. Thatís literally it.

  6. #2931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    Kobe is better at one skill, free throw shooting. Thatís literally it.
    Swap Lebron's body with Kobe's.
    And now tell me what Lebron is better at than Kobe.

  7. #2932
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Swap Lebron's body with Kobe's.
    And now tell me what Lebron is better at than Kobe.
    Everything other than free throw shooting.

  8. #2933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    Everything other than free throw shooting.
    Nope. He'd be a rotation player at a good team or a good player on a bad team. In now way a superstar but a borderline star player that his fanbase would like but everyone else wouldn't pay much attention to. Think someone at a similar level to Victor Oladipo or at best DeMar DeRozan.


    The best offensive asset of Lebron is isolation and charging full speed for the drive. Without his physical ability he wouldn't be able to simply go for the drive and he'd have to learn how to post up before his 30th birthday and learn how to shoot fadeaways from the elbow. Good luck with that.
    The one thing he'd be able to do more, which is likes, is be more of a distributor. But no one likes a 6ft6 guy who isn't shoot-first.

    Defensively he couldn't be able to handle anyone bigger than a SF.

    Lebron is a natural phenom, but that's about it. He could have played any other sport that has rules tailored for physical superiority and he'd be a leading athlete. But change the rules and Lebron is just one of many despite his physical prowess.

    Kobe on the other hand in Lebron's body would be a serious threat to Jordan's #1 legacy.

    This is my main holdback with Lebron. He sure deserves to be considered the greatest of his generation, but his generation has changed the rules so that he can be that #1. He doesn't have the required basketball skills to survive in an all time NBA argument.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 01-25-2020 at 09:54 AM.

  9. #2934
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    LeBron by a mile. It's not even close. Kobe couldn't hold LeBron jock strap.

  10. #2935
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Nope. He'd be a rotation player at a good team or a good player on a bad team. In now way a superstar but a borderline star player that his fanbase would like but everyone else wouldn't pay much attention to. Think someone at a similar level to Victor Oladipo or at best DeMar DeRozan.


    The best offensive asset of Lebron is isolation and charging full speed for the drive. Without his physical ability he wouldn't be able to simply go for the drive and he'd have to learn how to post up before his 30th birthday and learn how to shoot fadeaways from the elbow. Good luck with that.
    The one thing he'd be able to do more, which is likes, is be more of a distributor. But no one likes a 6ft6 guy who isn't shoot-first.

    Defensively he couldn't be able to handle anyone bigger than a SF.

    Lebron is a natural phenom, but that's about it. He could have played any other sport that has rules tailored for physical superiority and he'd be a leading athlete. But change the rules and Lebron is just one of many despite his physical prowess.

    Kobe on the other hand in Lebron's body would be a serious threat to Jordan's #1 legacy.

    This is my main holdback with Lebron. He sure deserves to be considered the greatest of his generation, but his generation has changed the rules so that he can be that #1. He doesn't have the required basketball skills to survive in an all time NBA argument.
    Youíre ****ing drunk

  11. #2936
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    I literally stopped after the first sentence, I donít have a clue what you said beyond that but thatís some of the dumbest **** Iíve ever read lol

  12. #2937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggie View Post
    I literally stopped after the first sentence, I donít have a clue what you said beyond that but thatís some of the dumbest **** Iíve ever read lol
    Maybe if you'd improve your comprehension skills you'd keep up.


    The notion that you honestly believe that Lebron would still be considered better than Kobe if they had somehow exchanged their physical stature simply shows how bad your understanding of basketball is. He'd barely be an all star.

  13. #2938
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Larry Bird was part of All-Defensive teams in a time where Bobby Jones, McHale, Michael Cooper, Dan Roundfield (notoriously good defender), Larry Nance, Paul Pressey and others were around, plus guys like Moncrief, Dumars and Jordan. Sure, Lebron has the edge defensively in the aspect of being more mobile and able to defend guards. Larry Bird has to guard a forward, that's for sure. But he'd do a very good job there. Also, Lebron cannot guard centers. Real centers. So let's let this joke die please. And I'm not sure he could be able to guard the Isiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Russell Webstrook type of PGs either.


    The fact that you diss Larry Bird's defense is showing pure ignorance on your part. Just because he was white and people were in awe of his overall quality? I mean this is **** that you heard all the time. "If Larry Bird was black, he'd be a nobody". Or "he doesn't play defense". Or "he's not athletic". And all that crap.

    Honestly, I love having people who disagree with me tell me these things like what you've posted. It shows how clueless you are about the sport and its players. Hopefully others who read the posts will pick something up and do their own proper research instead of repeating silly propaganda.

    With that being said, there's no way I'd pick peak Lebron James over peak Julius Erving either.

    Put Lebron in the Celtics instead of Larry Bird and they never become that great team. He just doesn't have 'it'. Larry Bird has 'it'. On all parts of the court. Lebron sometimes seems lost and will always look for his teammates to help him out when the situation is too much for him.

    When guys like Worthy say I'd rather guard Jordan than Bird while both these guys are at their prime, you get the point.

    Reggie Miller here on this question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4z6a04dBU
    Pretty much no questions asked, Larry Bird over Lebron James.

    Kareem here says the best he's ever played against was...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh256YNZPXU
    It's not like he didn't play against pretty much anyone that's relevant in the 70s and 80s.

    P.S: Larry Bird was the leader of the best NBA team of all time. 1986 Celtics.

    P.S2. Speak of the devil, Larry Bird on the Lebron vs Kobe argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSWxSfH5WC8

    He says Lebron is (was) the best player in the NBA by far. But if he had to play with either Lebron or Kobe, he'd pick Kobe. Lebron would be a choice to "have fun", Kobe would be a choice to "win". And "win and win and win". Spot on by Larry.
    First Bolded: OK, if you're going to use All-Defensive teams as a measurement you have to concede Kobe is a better defender than Clyde Drexler because he has far more.

    Second Bolded: Obviously you don't actually know anything about Larry Bird's defense. Yes, Larry guarded Forwards and he did a good job on slower forwards. But he excelled at help defense, stealing the ball or sealing off passing lanes. As a straight man defender, he was good defending the post unless the other guy was just far bigger. But he severely struggled against any kind of speed or athleticism.

    Third Bolded: LeBron can't guard real centers? OK, so what? Is that the arbiter of being a good defender? Larry Bird would get his **** handed to him if he tried to guard real centers, so it's not much of a comparison.

    Fourth Bolded: LeBron did an excellent job guarding Derrick Rose during the ECF. LeBron would have a far better time guarding Russell Westbrook, Tim Hardaway, etc. than Larry Bird would, that's for sure.

    Fifth Bolded: Despite you claiming I'm clueless it's obvious you don't know a thing about basketball beyond 1999. It's like all the basketball knowledge you know came from a book written in 2002 so anything afterwards doesn't count.

    Sixth Bolded: You talk about doing research and then boil down why Larry is better than LeBron to the "it" factor? LOL. Some research there... By the way, Larry Bird's "it" factor won him as many titles as LeBron despite playing on the 2nd most stacked team of the 80's.


    I get that you like all your favorites from when you grew up, and nothing will ever be as good as them. But you need to grow up. Time to stop living off your childhood nostalgia. LeBron is simply a better basketball player than Larry Bird.

  14. #2939
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Swap Lebron's body with Kobe's.
    And now tell me what Lebron is better at than Kobe.
    Swap Shaquille O'Neal's body with Mogsey Bogues. Shaq wouldn't be nearly as good. Guess Shaq sucks now...

  15. #2940
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Swap Shaquille O'Neal's body with Mogsey Bogues. Shaq wouldn't be nearly as good. Guess Shaq sucks now...
    First of all, you know exactly what the argument is.

    Basketball skills.

    A center isn't required to be very skillful on the ball or be able to shoot. Of course, Shaq is amongst the greatest because of his size, but he played near to the basket.

    Lebron is someone whose main scoring strength is driving to the basket. And he gets to the basket a lot. Not only because he's strong, but because he's been playing for almost the entirety of his career in a game set up around softening the regulations on players driving to the basket. So not only he was this big guy coming at people, they weren't allowed to touch him either. Put him 20 years back and he's not as celebrated. Go to his first two seasons and you'll see him trying to be more of a shooter because he had too much difficulty getting to the basket, not only because he wasn't as strong (which is accurate to an extent) but because the rules didn't make it so easy back then.

    So yeah, if you want to claim that Lebron is such a great basketball player, why would he be in such a disadvantage with an inferior physical stature? Your silly counter-argument just back fires here because you realize that that's Lebron's most important asset. And I only took 3 inches off him, not 3 feet. I just asked you how great would you claim Lebron was if his basketball skills were inside Kobe's body and vice versa. You obvsiously understand that and want to avoid acknowledging that Lebron loses like 50% of his ability due to his body strength. And I'll add the rules and refs that favor him here too, but that could take it to 80%.

    Lebron's main strength is his passing. It's the only thing he has at an elite level from all basic basketball skills.
    He couldn't post up for the majority of his career.
    He cannot really dribble, as evident from his constant traveling, double dribbles, carrying etc that goes uncalled almost all the time.
    He's not the greatest shooter out there.
    He's not the greatest man defender despite the hype.
    He's not an elite rebounder and doesn't really know how to box out give his physique.
    His basketball IQ is good enough but not as great as people make it out to be, a high IQ player knows how to do the basic stuff without violating half the rulebook and then literally cry in front of the referee if 0.01% of those get called.


    You clearly have issues understanding context as you believe that the argument "he has as many titles" and "most stacked team ever" and other BS like that is valid or even makes any sense.

    How about George Mikan? Better player? His team wasn't stacked, he was it. The other teams were crap though, but who cares? He won the rings. Who cares how many much better teams than the ones Lebron played for or against Bird faced? Or Erving. Or Kobe. Or Jordan. Or anyone really. He has 3 rings, so he's "elite". One ring dedicated to Ray Allen and Popovich for sitting Duncan out in game 6. One for Wade for winning him the 2012 title. And one for the Warriors ****ing it up in the Finals for various reasons. But yeah, great winner. Totally compares to Larry Bird
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 01-25-2020 at 03:45 PM.

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