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  1. #2326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    He can do them, but not very well. Kobe was GREAT at those things. LBJ can simply do them, but he's not a threat to beat you with his fadeaway. He can make it from time to time, but that's a far cry from it being a deadly weapon. The offense is happy to let LBJ take fadeaway and if he does, he's not going to beat anyone like that...at least not consistently. Again, big difference from being able to do something and being able to do something at arguably the highest level anyone has done it at. LBJ can do some of the things kobe can do, but just nowhere near the same level. In contrast, just about everything that LBJ was better than kobe at, it's very close because Kobe was excellent at those things as well.
    Listen to Steven Jackson carefully. Again if you just want a shooting guard Kobe is your guy. Lebron is not a shooting guard. If you value Kobe mamba, the Mj it, his drive whatever you want to call it then Kobe is your man. Thatís going to be the guy you pick. However if you want that all around play all 5 position guy the I am sorry them thatís Lebron. When you crunch it he is your man. When you get in your circles of context then you may love kobe. We are not talking team success, rings or win here just better player.

    https://youtu.be/hQjmwp8jlQ0

    I said it many times they love Kobe demeanor his drive. I am going to get you. That could very well raise his potential.

  2. #2327
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Listen to Steven Jackson carefully. Again if you just want a shooting guard Kobe is your guy. Lebron is not a shooting guard. If you value Kobe mamba, the Mj it, his drive whatever you want to call it then Kobe is your man. Thatís going to be the guy you pick. However if you want that all around play all 5 position guy the I am sorry them thatís Lebron. When you crunch it he is your man. When you get in your circles of context then you may love kobe. We are not talking team success, rings or win here just better player.

    https://youtu.be/hQjmwp8jlQ0

    I said it many times they love Kobe demeanor his drive. I am going to get you. That could very well raise his potential.
    LBJ can't really play center, but a player being able to play more positions doesn't make him a better player. Lamar could play center better than LBJ and he actually probably could play all 5 positions, but there's a bunch of guys who were better than him.

  3. #2328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    LBJ can't really play center, but a player being able to play more positions doesn't make him a better player. Lamar could play center better than LBJ and he actually probably could play all 5 positions, but there's a bunch of guys who were better than him.
    Thats not what i meant he's not Odom or GSW Green he's Lebron a generational player. Yes he can play center in todays game depending on match up like say GSW Green?

  4. #2329
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Thats not what i meant he's not Odom or GSW Green he's Lebron a generational player. Yes he can play center in todays game depending on match up like say GSW Green?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  5. #2330
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    If Rick Moranis was heavy weight champ I could fight for the title!


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    If magic was a great point Guard and filled in at center for Kareem and won a ring does that make him the greatest center of all time? Kobe is a shooting guard Lebron is a small forward.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-06-2019 at 01:21 AM.

  6. #2331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Umm, no not really and not that close either. Kobe is the better on ball defender and the better team defender. kobe is the much better shooter, has far better footwork off the dribble, better footwork in the post, better footwork off the ball, better moves in the post, better moves off the dribble, better moves off the ball. Kobe was a far greater array of shots that he can hit. kobe has a better off hand. Kobe is a better catch and shoot guy, kobe is a better free throw shooter, kobe is better off the ball. Kobe is the better free-throw shooter. Kobe is vastly, vastly superior out of the post (to the point in which it's almost embarrassing to compare them. LBJ is better off the dribble, but kobe was excellent off the dribble. LBJ is a better finisher, but kobe was an excellent finisher. LBJ is the better passer, but kobe was a very good passer. LBJ has better course vision, but kobe had very good court vision. LBJ is the better rebounder, but kobe was an excellent rebounding guard. The only thing that LBJ is better at than kobe in which kobe was not good at is shot selection. In contrast, almost everything that kobe is better than LBJ at LBJ is mediocre at best, whereas kobe was GREAT at those things. The difference is very large, but it's in Kobe's favor. LBJ is not a particularly skilled balled player. He has enough skills that with his size and athleticism he can be great, but there are a lot of players who are far better at more basketball skills than LBJ...it's not just kobe who wins out this comparison. There is a long list of guys that can be listed here where everything I just said about kobe in comparison to LBJ is true for them to when they are compared to LBJ.
    Kobe is the much better shooter but yet Lebron has a better career 3pt%
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  7. #2332
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    Kobe is the much better shooter but yet Lebron has a better career 3pt%
    Yes, but Kobe took a lot of bad shots and many of them were from 3s, whereas LBJ usually takes relatively good shots. Also the difference isn't particularly large and wouldn't take that much for that to flip. There are lots of guys who likely shot better from the field and even 3 who Kobe was a better shooter than because Kobe was in the habit of taking really tough shots.

  8. #2333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yes, but Kobe took a lot of bad shots and many of them were from 3s, whereas LBJ usually takes relatively good shots. Also the difference isn't particularly large and wouldn't take that much for that to flip. There are lots of guys who likely shot better from the field and even 3 who Kobe was a better shooter than because Kobe was in the habit of taking really tough shots.
    oh gotcha... so if you just don't take the all the bad shots Kobe took into consideration, Kobe is the better shooter.
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  9. #2334
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    If magic was a great point Guard and filled in at center for Kareem and won a ring does that make him the greatest center of all time? Kobe is a shooting guard Lebron is a small forward.
    you're the one who said "all around great 5 position guy"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  10. #2335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Umm, no not really and not that close either. Kobe is the better on ball defender and the better team defender. kobe is the much better shooter, has far better footwork off the dribble, better footwork in the post, better footwork off the ball, better moves in the post, better moves off the dribble, better moves off the ball. Kobe was a far greater array of shots that he can hit. kobe has a better off hand. Kobe is a better catch and shoot guy, kobe is a better free throw shooter, kobe is better off the ball. Kobe is the better free-throw shooter. Kobe is vastly, vastly superior out of the post (to the point in which it's almost embarrassing to compare them. LBJ is better off the dribble, but kobe was excellent off the dribble. LBJ is a better finisher, but kobe was an excellent finisher. LBJ is the better passer, but kobe was a very good passer. LBJ has better course vision, but kobe had very good court vision. LBJ is the better rebounder, but kobe was an excellent rebounding guard. The only thing that LBJ is better at than kobe in which kobe was not good at is shot selection. In contrast, almost everything that kobe is better than LBJ at LBJ is mediocre at best, whereas kobe was GREAT at those things. The difference is very large, but it's in Kobe's favor. LBJ is not a particularly skilled balled player. He has enough skills that with his size and athleticism he can be great, but there are a lot of players who are far better at more basketball skills than LBJ...it's not just kobe who wins out this comparison. There is a long list of guys that can be listed here where everything I just said about kobe in comparison to LBJ is true for them to when they are compared to LBJ.
    Are you saying Lebron is a mediocre career defender? Lebron made 5 straight D1 teams and a D2 team.

    Youre nit-picking parts of their games... like Kobe's post game, yes Lebron basically has no post game, so yes Kobe certainly gets that nod. How about Kobe's chase down block game? It's not comparable to Lebrons.

    Lebron is an elite passer one of the best of all time, hes in the top 10 all time at assists while not being a guard. Announcers talk all the time about his basketball IQ and how great of a floor general he is. Youre discrediting what hes superior at by just saying hes better.
    Last edited by MarkieMark48; 12-06-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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  11. #2336
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    you're the one who said "all around great 5 position guy"
    never said he was great at all position. said can play all positions. Did i not point out Kobe would be the better sg of the two?

  12. #2337
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    oh gotcha... so if you just don't take the all the bad shots Kobe took into consideration, Kobe is the better shooter.
    Yep, that's the biggest thing that held Kobe back and one area that LBJ is much better than Kobe at (shot selection). Kobe was a great difficult shot maker (probably the best ever), but had he been better at selecting his shots he could've won a lot more. LBJ on the other hand is excellent at shot selection.

  13. #2338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yep, that's the biggest thing that held Kobe back and one area that LBJ is much better than Kobe at (shot selection). Kobe was a great difficult shot maker (probably the best ever), but had he been better at selecting his shots he could've won a lot more. LBJ on the other hand is excellent at shot selection.
    But he took those shots though... that's like saying Jason Williams would have been the best passer of all time had he not made all those bad passes
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  14. #2339
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    Are you saying Lebron is a mediocre career defender? Lebron made 5 straight D1 teams and a D2 team.

    Youre nit-picking parts of their games... like Kobe's post game, yes Lebron basically has no post game, so yes Kobe certainly gets that nod. How about Kobe's chase down block game? It's not comparable to Lebrons.

    Lebron is an elite passer one of the best of all time, hes in the top 10 all time at assists while not being a guard. Announcers talk all the time about his basketball IQ and how great of a floor general he is. Youre discrediting what hes superior at by just saying hes better.
    No, LBJ was an elite defender as well (but I think Kobe was better and better for a longer period); defense isn't one of the things that I think there was a large gap between them though. I disagree that their chase down block was not comparable. Kobe was actually the first player I remember doing that fairly consistent and used to do it quite often up until around 2010. I do think LBJ's chase down block is better though, but again it's something that Kobe was excellent at as well.

    I've argued this on a different forum, but I think LBJ is a great passer for a sf, however I think there have been numerous pg guards who were more skilled passers. LBJ is a an excellent playmaker for sure, but the difference in their assists isn't all that great, especially when one considers that LBJ has the ball a lot. I give the nod on these to LBJ, but I don't think the difference is particularly substantial, as Kobe was one of the best play making sg and passers in NBA history (he's just not as good as LBJ was on those facets). That was my point though, that most of the things that LBJ was better at, Kobe was also great at (just not as good as LBJ), but a lot of the the things that Kobe was better at, LBJ was not particularly very good with (e.g., posting up, play off the ball).

  15. #2340
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    But he took those shots though... that's like saying Jason Williams would have been the best passer of all time had he not made all those bad passes
    I think an argument can be made Williams was actually one of the most skilled passers in the history of the game, but his decision making was not great. Those are different things though. Note how with Kobe and LBJ, I give LBJ a big advantage on shot selection (and that's actually not trivial, because it is a massive part of the game). All of those facets go into breaking down a player's game so I do think that it is important to take them into account when assessing and comparing players.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-06-2019 at 01:57 PM.

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