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  1. #3301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    because there is no motivation in that, at all. If you can't guard and play outside the paint, there is no need for you in today's NBA. The days of the trench big are extinct. Only rule changes will bring them back.
    It's funny, because they keep saying that Giannis needs to learn how to shoot from farther out in order to be dominant. Why even bother imo if he can just learn to be more dominant from inside of 5-10 feet. If Shaq were playing, would they tell him to learn an outside jumper? Heck no. Like you said earlier, the game would adjust around his dominance. Giannis is almost on that level to me. Just keep on doing what works for you and stop listening to all these other people who just want a more "exciting" game anyways.

  2. #3302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Without reading the same garbage over and over again, Lebron is a top 3 player ever when done, Kobe is top 10-12. I feel like this argument started 6 years ago, and since then Kobe went south and retired, while Lebron stacked his resume to make his peers MJ, KAJ, and Wilt. Not sure how this stupid argument still exists. And why anyone argues with the "better back in my day" F Scott Fitzgerald poster we have here
    Not sure how someone can be better than Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, Shaq, and Duncan with a much inferior resume and far less impressive title wins as well as a plethora of NBA Finals losses to boot.. If you're gonna say stats, clearly they are not indicative of winning and only serve as fluff likewise.
    Last edited by Romeo Naes; 02-14-2020 at 08:13 PM.

  3. #3303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    No. Thatís why Bogut was ONLY AVERAGING 15 MINUTES A GAME BEFORE HE GOT INJURED.
    I already went over this. Read before you post. That is factoring in his early exit from game five as well as blowout victories earlier on the in the series. Go look at Steph and Klay's minutes in the first four games. He was a starter and a 25-30 min a game guy normally. They really missed him in those final two games. Festus was a joke.

  4. #3304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I already went over this. Read before you post. That is factoring in his early exit from game five as well as blowout victories earlier on the in the series. Go look at Steph and Klay's minutes in the first four games. He was a starter and a 25-30 min a game guy normally. They really missed him in those final two games. Festus was a joke.
    Still only played 6 minutes in the first half of Game 5 when Green was out. It wasnít going to change in Games 6 and 7. Ezeli played the same minutes Bogut would have played in 6 and 7. The big men weren't effective in that series for the Warriors, regardless of what youíre trying to prove with Bogut.

    I know you have a hard time admitting that youíre full of garbage but your posts speak volumes. You and NYKalltheway are either trolling at this point or are just this bad at this discussion. Hell, could be both for all I know, itís that bad.

  5. #3305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Still only played 6 minutes in the first half of Game 5 when Green was out. It wasnít going to change in Games 6 and 7. Ezeli played the same minutes Bogut would have played in 6 and 7. The big men weren't effective in that series for the Warriors, regardless of what youíre trying to prove with Bogut.

    I know you have a hard time admitting that youíre full of garbage but your posts speak volumes. You and NYKalltheway are either trolling at this point or are just this bad at this discussion. Hell, could be both for all I know, itís that bad.
    Festus was complete trash on the defensive end. I remember him getting caught in a simple switch on two consecutive plays and letting LeBron his like two three's in a row on him a crucial point in the fourth quarter of game seven. In a close game seven, even with Bogut playing even 15 minutes, imagine how he could have impacted the game. I remember Kyrie and LeBron getting several simple uncontested drives to the hoop to cool of Golden State every time they would go off on one of their little runs. Bogut impacts just one or two of those plus doesn't make the same dumb mistakes as Festus, it's game over.

    He played 8 minutes in the first half and the Warriors were up. Losing him plus the injury to Iggy's back, plus not having Green available, proved to be just too much to overcome. I still hold true that if Green had played, that series would have been over in five games. Very luck title for your guy right there. Probably the luckiest I have seen won in all my years watching the NBA. Have to factor in that sort of context as well when I do my All-Time rankings.

    So funny, anyone who doesn't share your idolatry must be trolling right lol. Not everyone is on LeBron James' jock and can therefore look at things more objectively than one of his "witnesses".
    Last edited by Romeo Naes; 02-14-2020 at 10:16 PM.

  6. #3306
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post


    Lol, I don't hate Lebron. I just don't rate him as high as you do.
    I don't know why that is such a hard concept for these guys to grasp. Just because someone doesn't value a player the as much as they do, or hold them in as high an esteem, doesn't mean they therefore must hate them lol. Clear case of a false dilemma.
    Last edited by Romeo Naes; 02-14-2020 at 10:14 PM.

  7. #3307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Festus was complete trash on the defensive end. I remember him getting caught in a simple switch on two consecutive plays and letting LeBron his like two three's in a row on him a crucial point in the fourth quarter of game seven.
    Bogut wasnít fairing much better. Hence why he wasnít getting minutes.

    In a close game seven, even with Bogut playing even 15 minutes, imagine how he could have impacted the game. I remember Kyrie and LeBron getting several simple uncontested drives to the hoop to cool of Golden State every time they would go off on one of their little runs. Bogut impacts just one or two of those plus doesn't make the same dumb mistakes as Festus, it's game over.
    Nah, he wasnít a difference maker in that series. If youíd have watched it, youíd have seen.

    He played 8 minutes in the first half and the Warriors were up. Losing him plus the injury to Iggy's back, plus not having Green available, proved to be just too much to overcome. I still hold true that if Green had played, that series would have been over in five games.
    More than likely Green wouldíve been the difference maker and the Warriors would have won, I agree. But you canít swing for crotches after kicking crotches and not expect to get put in timeout. But Green was a difference maker in that series, Bogut wasn't. They still had the Death Lineup in 6 and 7 even if Iguadala had a bad back (everyone was injured in one way or another by then).

    Very luck title for your guy right there.
    Thereís a little bit of luck in every championship run.

    Probably the luckiest I have seen won in all my years watching the NBA. Have to factor in that sort of context as well when I do my All-Time rankings.
    Nah, the year before was the epitome of a Lucked Into Title. I would have loved to have seen those two go at it without the injuries, Greenís nutkickings and the Snake joining up the next year. Wouldíve been a great rivalry without those.

    So funny, anyone who doesn't share your idolatry must be trolling right lol. Not everyone is on LeBron James' jock and can therefore look at things more objectively than one of his "witnesses".
    But youíre the opposite. Plenty of people arenít on ďhis jockĒ and agree that heís Top 2 or 3 or 4. Talk about looking objectively? Thatís a straight up joke coming from you. I donít even idolize the guy but I can call it like I see it......which is shared by the vast majority of people on the subject.


    Objectivity? Get the **** outta here with that and comeback after you wash Birdís flavor out of your mouth.

  8. #3308
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    First of all, it's too naive and simple to have top whatever lists. Let's agree on that. If we cannot agree on that then the whole thing just becomes stupid. The only reason why these arguments could be fun is because you can group different players together and consider them to be part of an elite group, followed by a 2nd tier group etc.

    Now, when we say top 10 or whatever without any context or without distinguishing between positions (you cannot realistically put a center and a wing player on the same list), we obviously take a lot of things into account and not just "I prefer ths guy to that guy" and the biggest contributing factor to these lists is Legacy. As in, when you'll be asked in 5-10 years to recall the best players you've ever seen, your memory will start bringing up these guys.

    With that being said, there's no way Lebron would be considered a more signfiicant basketball player than Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan and Russell. That just leaves one spot for the rest of the top 10. And there's lots of players that could belong there. Some may have Kobe, others may have Barkley, others may have Moses Malone, others Oscar Robertson, some may have Lebron, others wanted to bring Curry into this discussion a few years back for whatever reason, some have Jerry West, some have Elgin Baylor, Lebron himself claimed that Julius Erving is in his top 3 (along with Bird and Jordan) not many years ago, there's David Robinson as well, Isiah Thomas could be another...

    There's no way that Lebron ever is considered a top 3 player. He can play until he's 60, it won't change this. The elite tier is for players that have reached the peak. Lebron has not reached this and he is extremely unlikely to go to new heights.

    I mentioned 9 'definite' names because there's nothing Lebron has done to have a legacy greater than theirs. Sure, he's playing for a long while and as a result he's breaking several records, but then you come to think of who else from Lebron's time has a claim for a top 20 spot. There's no one really outside of Kobe who had won 3 championships before Lebron entered high school... No one drafted after Lebron is going to be considered top 20. That should trigger something for those who claim that Lebron's statistical achievements are great (because that's what they are, nothing more) since they are kinda futile. And it's not as if he's a pioneer. Wilt's been there already.

    The only thing where Lebron wins out is that he's a more recent player so people making these claims are more inclined to overrate him. Just like when Kobe was at it in the late 2000s and people were considering him a top 3-5 player. These things don't fluctuate. Once you're a top 3 player, you're a top 3 player. A player retired for over 15 years cannot surpass you anymore. Yet we've seen a lot of people fluctuate.
    LeBron is already a pretty much unanimous Top 3 player by every publication and pundit. If you think more time is going to lessen his Ranking, youíre wrong.

    He is the greatest player of a generation, to the point where nobody will be disputing his ranking (but you).

    If you think heís going to start getting ranked lower with time, youíre delusional. The fact you donít hVe him top 10 shows your laughable bias.

    Itíd be like people trying to argue that MJ isnít too 5. Like, when an opinion is too stupid to entertain, thereís no point in explaining g how stupid an opinion it is.

    It will be fun to see you about to literally everyone about how much smarter you are in hating on LeBron. Much like anti-evolutionists, your argument will only sound more ridiculous with time.

  9. #3309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I don't know why that is such a hard concept for these guys to grasp. Just because someone doesn't value a player the as much as they do, or hold them in as high an esteem, doesn't mean they therefore must hate them lol. Clear case of a false dilemma.
    Well the alternative is youíre just not good at evaluating talent. If thatís what youíd rather be known for...

  10. #3310
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well the alternative is youíre just not good at evaluating talent. If thatís what youíd rather be known for...
    So, now that I am not validating your guy, my competence has to come into question eh. Perhaps I can draw a similar conclusion about you being bias due to your admiration for a certain player.

  11. #3311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Bogut wasnít fairing much better. Hence why he wasnít getting minutes.
    Festus was complete trash bro. He looked lost when he was out there. I maintain, that game was so close, if Bogut was available, it's likely he could have had an impact on some of those easy drives to the lane Kyrie and LeBron had which cooled of some of the runs Golden State went on throughout the game. If he even changes one shot, it's likely the outcome is completely different. You can't honestly tell me that Festus was as valuable to that team has Bogut was. His BBall IQ was so bad. He kept constantly getting caught on switches and getting exploited on mismatches. He was turrible bro. In the words of Charles Barkley.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Nah, he wasnít a difference maker in that series. If youíd have watched it, youíd have seen.
    Ya, because all this information I have comes from me not having watched it. Come on man, you can do better.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    More than likely Green wouldíve been the difference maker and the Warriors would have won, I agree. But you canít swing for crotches after kicking crotches and not expect to get put in timeout. But Green was a difference maker in that series, Bogut wasn't. They still had the Death Lineup in 6 and 7 even if Iguadala had a bad back (everyone was injured in one way or another by then).
    Green's foul should not have been upgraded to a flagrant. It was originally called a tech for jawing with LeBron on the proceeding play under the rim fighting over a rebound. The crotch grab play where LeBron teabagged him, was not called at all, and therefore could not legally should have had no bearing on the technical he got under the rim jawing with LeBron on the next play being changed from a technical to a flagrant. It's not even legit to change a technical to a flagrant anyways lol. Especially based on something that had happened on the previous play where there was no foul even called.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Thereís a little bit of luck in every championship run.
    Yes, for sure. Some more than others. Some a lot more than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Nah, the year before was the epitome of a Lucked Into Title. I would have loved to have seen those two go at it without the injuries, Greenís nutkickings and the Snake joining up the next year. Wouldíve been a great rivalry without those.
    Yes, but those were due to injuries which no one has control over, not a very questionable ruling by the NBA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    But youíre the opposite. Plenty of people arenít on ďhis jockĒ and agree that heís Top 2 or 3 or 4. Talk about looking objectively? Thatís a straight up joke coming from you. I donít even idolize the guy but I can call it like I see it......which is shared by the vast majority of people on the subject.
    Usually, Bron fans always give themselves away when they refer to Durant as a snake lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Objectivity? Get the **** outta here with that and comeback after you wash Birdís flavor out of your mouth.
    Bird lololol. If you even knew me you would know just how false that statement is. Definitely not a Bird fan at all. I just happen to think he is a better All-Time basketball player than LeBron James.

  12. #3312
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    LeBron is already a pretty much unanimous Top 3 player by every publication and pundit. If you think more time is going to lessen his Ranking, youíre wrong.

    He is the greatest player of a generation, to the point where nobody will be disputing his ranking (but you).

    If you think heís going to start getting ranked lower with time, youíre delusional. The fact you donít hVe him top 10 shows your laughable bias.

    Itíd be like people trying to argue that MJ isnít too 5. Like, when an opinion is too stupid to entertain, thereís no point in explaining g how stupid an opinion it is.

    It will be fun to see you about to literally everyone about how much smarter you are in hating on LeBron. Much like anti-evolutionists, your argument will only sound more ridiculous with time.
    Those talking heads are a joke. Especially Nick Wright. Just because they are on TV, doesn't make their opinions any more valuable than yours or mine.

  13. #3313
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Also, can we all stop and appreciate how monumentally dumb the statement "LeBron was a more complete offensive player his rookie year" is?

    Of course he wasn't a more complete offensive player his rookie year. What a bad take.
    Itís beyond bad. It is the worst take in PSD history. I challenge anyone to find a less accurate take. You might as well stop with this guy if his evaluation of Lebron is based on this opinion. He doesnít no anything about Lebron James. Just a sad sorry hater period...making it up as he goes.

  14. #3314
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    As for Kobe vs Lebron, there's a way to compare them, albeit also inaccurate.

    Assuming that inside the paint kind of players (old school centers and old school PFs like Duncan, McHale and Hayes) are excluded and we're only taking into account perimeter players (should exclude pure pass first point guards as well like Cousy, Stockton, Kidd, Nash, Rondo etc), a "where does he rank" per situation could be quite illuminating.

    And this is taking into account their primes (age 22 to 32 let's say)

    Footwork:
    Kobe Bryant ~ definitely in the top 10
    Lebron James ~ arguably outside the top 60

    High post:
    Kobe Bryant ~ arguably top 10
    Lebron James ~ top 30 at best

    Low post:
    Kobe Bryant ~ outside of the top 30
    Lebron James ~ top 20ish

    Midrange:
    Kobe Bryant ~ probably top 10
    Lebron James ~ top 25

    3 Point:
    Kobe Bryant ~ somewhere in the top 100
    Lebron James ~ somewhere in the top 100

    Contested close range attempts:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 10-15
    Lebron James ~ top 5

    Contested midrange shots:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 5-10
    Lebron James ~ top 20-30

    Contested three pointers:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 50
    Lebron James ~ top 50

    Passing:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 100
    Lebron James ~ top 5ish [Magic, Larry Bird, Maravich... West maybe?]

    Playmaking:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 100ish
    Lebron James ~ top 15 (there is still a number of PGs out there that take most of the top 10)

    Boxing out:
    Both aren't really worth of mentioning here.

    Tenacity:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 10
    Lebron James ~ top 50

    Man defending:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 30
    Lebron James ~ top 50

    Team defending: (think blocking a passing lane, double teams etc)
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 50
    Lebron James ~ top 15

    Clutch:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 10
    Lebron James ~ top 20

    Dribbling:
    This is Lebron James' nemesis. Kobe Bryant easily the better dribbler of the two and you're not left asking "how could the refs not call a violation on that?"

    Driving to the basket:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 20
    Lebron James ~ top 5, possibly #1, though peak Penny and Grant Hill as short as it was, probably were better.

    Athleticism:
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 50
    Lebron James ~ top 3, possibly #1 since we're excluding Shaq and Wilt and the only available adversaries are Jordan, Erving, Russell Westbrook, Vince Carter and Dominique Wilkins.

    Awareness: (includes offensive, defensive and understanding how the situation will play out)
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 10
    Lebron James ~ top 20

    Winning mentality: (measured by eagerness to win, take over the game at the final moments and overall improvement compared to the rest of the game during the last possessions and essentially a kill mentality. Not to be confused with clutch play which is basically the ability to still pull off the usual stuff despite the pressure of time lapsing)
    Kobe Bryant ~ top 5, lock, probably top 3 behind Michael Jordan and Larry Bird but there's also Magic Johnson and Jerry West. [the rest of my top 10 would include James Worthy, Reggie Miller, Kevin Durant, Rick Barry and John Havlicek)
    Lebron James ~ top 30ish


    All in all, the conclusion is that they are different players, something I'm hoping we all knew before making any comparisons.

    Lebron is one of the most athletic players of all time and he has great passing abilities whilst Kobe is a better scorer and a more all around fundamentally player.

    Both are great players but I find that they are both overrated here.

    Oh and of course this is based on my view, I'm pretty sure many will disagree with a lot of this as usual for both Kobe fans and Lebron fans who want to consider their guys as the best in everything. And maybe a couple of more categories could be added.
    Lol, discounts all statistics and then rates solely off his opinion. But his job is centered around statistics. Dudes on PSD are just straight up liars. Thatís the takeaway here.

  15. #3315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Festus was complete trash bro. He looked lost when he was out there. I maintain, that game was so close, if Bogut was available, it's likely he could have had an impact on some of those easy drives to the lane Kyrie and LeBron had which cooled of some of the runs Golden State went on throughout the game. If he even changes one shot, it's likely the outcome is completely different. You can't honestly tell me that Festus was as valuable to that team has Bogut was. His BBall IQ was so bad. He kept constantly getting caught on switches and getting exploited on mismatches. He was turrible bro. In the words of Charles Barkley.




    Ya, because all this information I have comes from me not having watched it. Come on man, you can do better.




    Green's foul should not have been upgraded to a flagrant. It was originally called a tech for jawing with LeBron on the proceeding play under the rim fighting over a rebound. The crotch grab play where LeBron teabagged him, was not called at all, and therefore could not legally should have had no bearing on the technical he got under the rim jawing with LeBron on the next play being changed from a technical to a flagrant. It's not even legit to change a technical to a flagrant anyways lol. Especially based on something that had happened on the previous play where there was no foul even called.




    Yes, for sure. Some more than others. Some a lot more than others.



    Yes, but those were due to injuries which no one has control over, not a very questionable ruling by the NBA.



    Usually, Bron fans always give themselves away when they refer to Durant as a snake lol.



    Bird lololol. If you even knew me you would know just how false that statement is. Definitely not a Bird fan at all. I just happen to think he is a better All-Time basketball player than LeBron James.
    Bogutís injury was not the difference.
    Draymond threw a punch towards Lebron. Of course thatís going to get him reprimanded. Nothing questionable about it.
    The vast majority of anyone commenting on any of this believe in entirety that Lebron James is at a higher rank all time than Larry Bird. If you want that to be the cross that you bear than have it. Just know that you are wrong.

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