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  1. #7261
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    What are you guys even talking about? Didn't Kobe miss the playoffs with injury that year?
    Pushed himself to hard. Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves. This is one Area where Phil kept Kobe from doing to much. That was the ending of a great career. The most entertaing player IMO behind MJ.

    "Others feared too. "We gotta protect him!" Dwight Howard would plead to Lakers coaches, and the coaches tried. "You've got to come out," head coach Mike D'Antoni would beg his star at the end of every first quarter, but the star's response was always the same: "I'll tell you when I need to come out."

    The toll mounted.

    Jamison and guard Chris Duhon would stare at their teammate, the star, slumped over in his locker, crumbling. Game after game, the cycle repeated, and after each one, Jamison, inches away from the haggard soul packed in ice, knew it wouldn't last, knew disaster loomed. "Man," Jamison believed, "there's no way this guy is going to make it."

    This is one of the reasons i wanted Lakers to get legit help and back up for Lebron. Hes 35 about to be 36 you dont want him doing to much at this point. Lebron seem to pace himself which is good. Most times hes reading the floor at the top of the key he did cut back on the number of drives to the basket and above the rim plays.
    Last edited by ldawg; 09-16-2020 at 02:05 PM.

  2. #7262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yes dude, but those teams I mentioned were not championship caliber teams and they showed it by getting destroyed in the finals. It's one thing to make the finals and be a legitimate contender, but it's completely different to be mediocre and nowhere near a contender and make the finals. Those cavs teams I mentioned, while not horrible, were probably on par with a 6-8 seed in the west. No one is saying much about the teams LBJ had that were really good and made the finals. Sure it was easier to do that coming out of the east because the east sucked, but they still belonged there. The 07 and 18 cavs did not belong in the finals, not in any year or conference.
    except for the year and conference they made it in... you could probably throw the 15 cavs team that played in the finals in there too.
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  3. #7263
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    except for the year and conference they made it in... you could probably throw the 15 cavs team that played in the finals in there too.
    I meant more in terms of whether they were legitimate title contenders. I think you're right in that what ended up being left of the 15 team after game 1 or so was definitely not a title contender, but during the playoffs they had Kyrie and Love.

  4. #7264
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Pushed himself to hard. Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves. This is one Area where Phil kept Kobe from doing to much. That was the ending of a great career. The most entertaing player IMO behind MJ.

    "Others feared too. "We gotta protect him!" Dwight Howard would plead to Lakers coaches, and the coaches tried. "You've got to come out," head coach Mike D'Antoni would beg his star at the end of every first quarter, but the star's response was always the same: "I'll tell you when I need to come out."

    The toll mounted.

    Jamison and guard Chris Duhon would stare at their teammate, the star, slumped over in his locker, crumbling. Game after game, the cycle repeated, and after each one, Jamison, inches away from the haggard soul packed in ice, knew it wouldn't last, knew disaster loomed. "Man," Jamison believed, "there's no way this guy is going to make it."

    This is one of the reasons i wanted Lakers to get legit help and back up for Lebron. Hes 35 about to be 36 you dont want him doing to much at this point. Lebron seem to pace himself which is good. Most times hes reading the floor at the top of the key he did cut back on the number of drives to the basket and above the rim plays.
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  5. #7265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Kobe had more help to start, but LBJ had more help on the back end of his career. Frankly, it's better to have help on the backend once you hit your prime and on then before, because the first few years you're not anywhere near the level of player you will become. The fact is that shaq and kobe never really played together at the same time they were in their primes, 03 is maybe the closest we came to it, but shaq was really out of shape and overweight and overall disinterested. If the 01 version of kobe had started off with the 97 version of shaq and they went from there, then sure I would absolutely agree. But as it was, there was really only about 4-5 years of both playing together while being stars and they won 3 titles in that stint and should've probably won 5 if not for all the turmoil. Of those years though, I dont think any involved a prime kobe and a prime shaq.
    Yeah but in 01 Shaq was still better than Kobe. He was still better than Kobe every year he played with Kobe, so if Kobe was entering his prime in 01, even if Shaq wasnít in his Prime, Kobe was still plAging with a player that was more dominant than himself. Bron has never been able to play with someone like that, and if he had, you can write that year off as a ring.

  6. #7266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I meant more in terms of whether they were legitimate title contenders. I think you're right in that what ended up being left of the 15 team after game 1 or so was definitely not a title contender, but during the playoffs they had Kyrie and Love.
    That should say something about Lebron still being able to take the Warriors to 6 games.

    Love got hurt in the first round, Kyrie got hurt in the conference finals before getting hurt for good in G1 of the NBA finals
    Last edited by MarkieMark48; 09-16-2020 at 03:19 PM.
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  7. #7267
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Yeah but in 01 Shaq was still better than Kobe. He was still better than Kobe every year he played with Kobe, so if Kobe was entering his prime in 01, even if Shaq wasnít in his Prime, Kobe was still plAging with a player that was more dominant than himself. Bron has never been able to play with someone like that, and if he had, you can write that year off as a ring.
    I disagree that shaq was better every year. I think Kobe became a bonafide superstar in 01, wherein he was a top 5 player (and I agree shaq was better), but I dont think kobe started entering his prime until 03. I think Shaq's prime ended around 02 or so (I think 03 and 04 kobe was better). I do agree that LBJ has never been on a team with a better player than him, which is a luxury for sure (this year is the closest that comes and it's pretty close, but LBJ is clearly the leader so I still give him the edge over AD because of that).

  8. #7268
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    That should say something about Lebron still being able to take the Warriors to 6 games.

    Love got hurt in the first round, Kyrie got hurt in the conference finals before getting hurt for good in G1 of the NBA finals
    Yeah, I won't disagree with that. I don't think the warriors were going full throttle at that point, but nevertheless you do make a fair point

  9. #7269
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Yeah but in 01 Shaq was still better than Kobe. He was still better than Kobe every year he played with Kobe, so if Kobe was entering his prime in 01, even if Shaq wasnít in his Prime, Kobe was still plAging with a player that was more dominant than himself. Bron has never been able to play with someone like that, and if he had, you can write that year off as a ring.
    2 or 3 extra rings for sure. Kobe did play a vital part he was not just a throw in piece he was important in those rings as well. It takes two stars min but at that stage in his career being the key star it was not going to come so soon. A number of Players would of had a shot to win a title or two with Shaq. Having said that Kobe and Duncan could have won more than 3 together. Duncan personality also would have been a better fit than that with Shaq.

    Would Kobe have won with Big Z i highly dought it. Dude avg a blistering 10ppg in the post season. I mean even Jordan and the monster numbers and all could not do it.
    Last edited by ldawg; 09-16-2020 at 05:50 PM.

  10. #7270
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    Weak west, bubble asterisk... theres a couple things one could use to diminish a championship if it is achieved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I definitely don't consider the west to be weak. It had at least 3 legit teams in the lakers, clippers, and nuggets and a bunch of other really good teams. This is definitely a season like no other, but with that comes some pretty difficult challenges. I think given everything that's occurred this year, especially for the lakers and LBJ (who was really close with kobe), it would be a major accomplishment to win the title. It would be a major accomplishment for any team. Probably the most difficult season to stay focused and play basketball at a high level that we've had to date.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, the shortened season. It's not a full season and weird things happen on shortened season. They just come with an asterisk, that's all. This isn't specific to LBJ or basketball, it applies to everyone in every sport, just like this season will for basketball and baseball.

    Soooooooo, which is it?

  11. #7271
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  12. #7272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Soooooooo, which is it?


    The answer is whatever makes LeBron look the worst.

  13. #7273
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Soooooooo, which is it?
    They're both the case. It's not a black or white sort of thing. However, given the situation, this isn't the same as other shortened seasons (i.e., this one would be considerably more valuable than titles in other shortened seasons).

  14. #7274
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post


    The answer is whatever makes LeBron look the worst.
    Not everything is about LBJ.

  15. #7275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Soooooooo, which is it?
    If Iím reading this right, and Iíd like to think that I am, the asterisk next to the title signifies a title that is harder to win that your average title thus worth more in comparison to a regular year title win.

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