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  1. #2611
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    The reason why many love kobe is his drive. This is what separated him from the rest. His hart, will and determination. Kobe maximize his ability even pushing his body to breaking point and played through many injuries where most would have stayed home to mend. This pushed Kobe into the great player status. This is what many believe Lebron lacked. This is also why Shaq did not lived up to his full potential. It came easier for them being stronger. Kobe was also as entertaining and stylish as they come. MJ, Kobe, AI IMO had to be the most entertaining in modern NBA. Kobe was not as gifted as MJ and Lebron. Lebron career winning would have been better in a better situation. Over the years hes had some bad coaches. Kyrie also foolishly break up the band.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-11-2019 at 11:13 PM.

  2. #2612
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Except it was true at the time. MJ was the best player ever. If anything, you doubting MJ when it was obvious he was the best demonstrates the limitations of your judgement.
    Hes been proven to have lapses in memory or flat out lie to craft his revisionist narrative devoid of facts. Like when he thought Magic jumped C in G7, or how he couldn't remember the specifics about KGs trade demands and that was only a few years ago. How he misused the word title favorite to discredit Duncans superior resume/productive value.

    The MJ being goat really took off in the middle of his possible 3peet. This dude has alzheimers tho

  3. #2613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Phil was also badly, badly out coached by Larry brown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Those things all happened, but Phil got badly out coached. Kobe falling into the trap is as much on Phil and the coaching staff as it is on Kobe.
    LMFAO, ur bias is showing. Kind of hard to impliment any changes when your ego driven star refuses to reign himself in and goes rogue. The ENTIRE Pistons team knew Kobe would fall for the trap and start "pressing", its a big reason why they single covered Shaq. Pretty sure even Kobe has apologized to Shaq for his play that Finals. If it were Peak Shaq they mightve been able to overcome Kobe's ball hoggery but definitely not that version of Shaq.

  4. #2614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Really? Odd, I don't remember ever once making a single projection as to how much time he would get. Go ahead and point me to the post where I explicitly specified the amount of playing time LBJ would get.
    So you agree, the man child would've gotten more time than twig boy? Especially on the Lakers where they had a position of need at the 3 that Kobe couldn't fill? I see him getting a big role early given his superior athleticism and build.

  5. #2615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    You seem to not be able to comprehend that what I'm raising are reasons why those numbers aren't useful. Here is the thing you see, Expert A tells another Expert B these types of critiques, it up to Expert B to address them NOT Expert A. The difference here is that only one of us is an expert here and it's not you my friend. So go ahead and earn the right to have an opinion on this or leave it to the people who have decades of experience and have earned the right to comment on this sort of thing.
    You have done nothing to even offer the slightest hint at an ability to comprehend the numbers. You are fooling nobody and have utterly failed to deliver ANY sort of quantifiable evidence. Wake me up when you finally get a break from your job to post something(ANYTHING) of substance.

  6. #2616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Oh boy hahahaha...yep, Wade would have put Kobe's career to shame. This shows just why you have no business being allowed near any data. Wade would probably laugh in your face if you were to say this. This has to be your biggest doofus take in quite sometime (on par with back when you used to think Kobe couldn't lead his team to a title as the best player).

    Here is what we know. Kobe won 3 with shaq whereas Wade won 2 with LBJ and Bosh. Here is also what we can likely infer: prime Kobe would have likely won more than 3 with prime shaq. Wade couldn't do that with a better team so unlikely he even gets to 3 with shaq. That's really the end of it and there isn't much else to discuss. You are wrong, per usual, but Im sure you're used to that by now, especially when it comes to things related to Kobe.
    LOL, get to work on that time machine and then Ill care. And no, you cant prove **** because I've ALWAYS stated ANYONE can win a chip if the support is great enough, always have, always will. Meanwhile you have to resort to lying about how odds and probabilities work, either that or you are truly too inept to look up the stats on BS you spew.

    Likely? I dont trust your projections, you couldn't even use the word "FAVORITE" in correct context. Ive made too much money off Kobe to trust you, sorry brother.

  7. #2617
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    Man why couldn't Kobe just let Shaq do his thing in those Finals, I honestly believe he would have rather taken that L than see Shaq hoist yet another F.MVP over him. He was beyond uncoachable back then tho. In Phils own words, he would often tell him something along the lines of "we can find a way to trade you if you dont want to play team ball" or whatever. Some quick snippets from Phil.

    “There were times where the resistance of Kobe trying to take over a ballgame and doing the things he likes to do interfered with the business of the basketball going on on the floor,” Jackson said. “There was a little contention going on.”

    “Ah, my good friend Kobe Bryant. … Yes, quite often I could feel his hatred.
    “I’m sure Kobe was pissed when I wrote in ‘The Last Season’ that he was uncoachable. And, yes, we were often at loggerheads. He wanted more freedom and I wanted him to be more disciplined.


    Phil on how stubborn headed Kobe was;
    “In his mind he had it all figured out. His goal was to become the greatest basketball player of all time. And he was certain he knew what he had to do to get there. Why should he listen to anybody else? If he followed my advice and cut back his scoring, he’d fall short of his ultimate goal. How was I going to get through to this kid?”

    On Kobe wanting to be team captain:
    “You can’t be captain if nobody follows you,”


    Chauncey talking about the Finals where they utterly humiliated Kobe"

    "We knew there was no way we could stop Shaq straight-up"

    "But what’s going to happen is Mr. Bryant is going to get a little discouraged with getting no touches and now the second half comes around…now he’s pressing. He’s going to start coming down and just breaking the offense." -
    Chauncey Billups




    Im pretty sure they still lose that Finals, but it definitely would've been closer had Kobe listened to the coaching staff.
    Last edited by Chronz; 12-12-2019 at 01:08 AM.

  8. #2618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    The only other guard worth mentioning is Mcgrady. He was drafted out of high school at 9. He received more playing time then Kobe’s rookie year and he got 20+ mins a game his second year. No all stars. His 3rd year Mcgrady knew he had to leave Toronto to start getting real playing time. Once Mcgrady got his 35+ mins a game he was a true elite of the game. He became a top 5 SG.
    LMFAO, is this a joke? He was going to get the time anywhere, he chose Orlando because it was home and he was going to play alongside a star greater than even his high flying cuz. Everyone knew he was going to be a stud because he was incredibly productive on both ends for his role. He was a smart passer and athletic as hell, in many ways he had a better playoff showing than VC their first time together.

    Mcgrady teen years was amazing but the gap between what Kobe accomplished and Mcgrady is big. Teen Kobe lost 3 all stars and the Lakers got better.
    It wasn't big at all, Tmac was a superior passer, defender, rebounder. Kobe had more skill at that point but Tmac was more athletic and increasing his skill level every year too.

    James lost Irving and Love and no championship. Understandable. Kobe lost Rodman, Jones and Van Exel and went 15-1 in the playoffs.
    Well yeah, Bron was on a team that sucked without him whereas the LAkers were competing at a high level regardless of whether Kobe was playing or not, kind of happens when you have a teammate like Shaq. Whyd you bring up Rodman tho? They ACQUIRED Rodman in hopes that he could help them, he wasn't worth the distraction.

    Do you kobe fans even care about appearing objective or do you guys have to be this obvious as an art form?

  9. #2619
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakerClipperFan View Post
    LAbron is about to pass Bryant in points.
    LAbron will be the all time scoring leader within 3 years max.

    Bryant has the lowest FG% of any of the top 14 all time scorers.
    Bron has a better 3 point % than Bryant.

    There are good reasons why Bryant is ranked 14 by Bleacher, 12 by Fox and ESPN. Only a troll would ignore these rankings.
    This

  10. #2620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    So you agree, the man child would've gotten more time than twig boy? Especially on the Lakers where they had a position of need at the 3 that Kobe couldn't fill? I see him getting a big role early given his superior athleticism and build.
    possibly on that specific team, but that's simply due to them not having as much depth at the sf position. In a similar situation, where there were 2 all-star players ahead of him and out of hs in that time period, I doubt he gets that much playing time. Little to do with ability, more to do with the norms of the time.

  11. #2621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Hes been proven to have lapses in memory or flat out lie to craft his revisionist narrative devoid of facts. Like when he thought Magic jumped C in G7, or how he couldn't remember the specifics about KGs trade demands and that was only a few years ago. How he misused the word title favorite to discredit Duncans superior resume/productive value.

    The MJ being goat really took off in the middle of his possible 3peet. This dude has alzheimers tho
    It picked up steam during that time, yes. That's far different from being undisputedly known as the GOAT with very little push back from any opposition.

  12. #2622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    LMFAO, ur bias is showing. Kind of hard to impliment any changes when your ego driven star refuses to reign himself in and goes rogue. The ENTIRE Pistons team knew Kobe would fall for the trap and start "pressing", its a big reason why they single covered Shaq. Pretty sure even Kobe has apologized to Shaq for his play that Finals. If it were Peak Shaq they mightve been able to overcome Kobe's ball hoggery but definitely not that version of Shaq.
    There's no bias here. If a player is getting suckered into taking dumb shots, it's as much on the coach to pick up on that and work around it. It's funny how the coach gets no blame in this and it falls entirely on Phil lol. If Kobe was so difficult to coach, there's no reason Phil would've come back a second time, especially with the team being as bad as they were when he returned. Phil could've gotten better offers elsewhere if he was eager to come back and coach, instead he went to the lakers where he knew it would be Kobe's team. Doesn't really fit the narrative that you've been trying to paint about how Phil felt about Kobe.

  13. #2623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    LOL, get to work on that time machine and then Ill care. And no, you cant prove **** because I've ALWAYS stated ANYONE can win a chip if the support is great enough, always have, always will. Meanwhile you have to resort to lying about how odds and probabilities work, either that or you are truly too inept to look up the stats on BS you spew.

    Likely? I dont trust your projections, you couldn't even use the word "FAVORITE" in correct context. Ive made too much money off Kobe to trust you, sorry brother.
    It's funny how you keep mentioning me saying the heat were favorites, which shows your posts are not in good faith in terms of actually having any kind of discussion. Here's why: 1) I've already stated that I was basing it on my memory of what some analysts were saying at the time from over 20 years ago and that I didn't actually check the actual numbers on this, 2) it was completely irrelevant to the point I was making when this was raised (because the point holds regardless), and 3) it's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

    I've made a decent amount of money myself betting against your guys Duncan and LBJ...I could always count on the Duncan spurs going out almost any time there was a legit contender in the west and on LBJ losing in the finals. I could also count on the lakers making a deep when Kobe had a legit second all-star teammate (that's all he ever needed).

  14. #2624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    You have done nothing to even offer the slightest hint at an ability to comprehend the numbers. You are fooling nobody and have utterly failed to deliver ANY sort of quantifiable evidence. Wake me up when you finally get a break from your job to post something(ANYTHING) of substance.
    Well, I've had various posters comment positively on my posts, whereas others have openly asked you if you are a troll so I think most of your post here might be you projecting lol. At any rate, and again, I've raised issues as to why those numbers are not meaningful and why it is not appropriate to use them to assess players (perfectly fine if you want to use them to make predictions about which team is going to win, not fine if you're going to extrapolate from that to determine who is the better player; that's not what those numbers are telling us or predicting and I suspect you might be aware of this). I think you kind of just have an issue with uncertainty and not knowing so you take these over the top positions that overstate your claim and completely diminishes or ignores what the other person is saying. That might work in politics, but it's all smoke and mirrors.

  15. #2625
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    This
    I'm starting to wonder if LCF is your dupe account lol

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