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  1. #2431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Not true at all. In Kobe's time, guys just didn't get very much time out of HS, especially on a team that was expected to contend. Kobe actually played a decent amount for a player in that situation. If LBJ were on that team, I doubt he would've gotten too much playing time one way or the other either. Not because he wasn't ready, but because young players weren't trusted too much during that era.
    He would have been trusted more than a twig who was far less hyped. Kobe actually played less than the HS kids before and after him. Bron was more NBA ready than ALL of them. When you doubt things, do you base them on anything other than love of Kobe?

  2. #2432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Maybe that's in part because LBJ was playing in the g league with more minutes and more friendly offensive rules than Kobe had when he was the same age.
    Not even close to being remotely plausible given the lack of objective evidence in your favor. Wish you could come up with more than silly memes bro.

  3. #2433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    He would have been trusted more than a twig who was far less hyped. Kobe actually played less than the HS kids before and after him. Bron was more NBA ready than ALL of them. When you doubt things, do you base them on anything other than love of Kobe?
    This has nothing to do with Kobe. Kobe could have never played in the NBA and LBJ likely doesn't get too much playing time in 1997 out of HS.

  4. #2434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    We already addressed how it's not appropriate to say a prime wade would do this or that with shaq, because Kobe was not in his prime with shaq.
    He was in his prime, he wasn't at his peak. And it is appropriate because we can see their performances throughout, and its my opinion that you are dead wrong. Feel free to disagree but that IS the debate at hand.

    You said that wade was more productive as a 2nd option than kobe. Okay, well he WON LESS than Kobe in that role. That's what actually happened.
    False, Wade simply ceased being the player on that productive plane, its why theres a huge difference in his production levels throughout his years with Bron despite having the same role and why there was no resurgence immediately upon their separation. Its because only an idiot would think the Wade at the end of the run was the same guy who started that union. You simply dont understand context of careers so you rely on simplistic stances.

    Wade won less despite having a 3rd star and playing incredibly weaker competition. Somehow, Kobe managed to win more despite being further away from his prime (apparently producing less) and going up against vastly tougher competition (and having far tougher defense played on him because guys were still allowed to play defense in those days.
    This argument has already been obliterated as evidence by how great the team played in Kobes absence. He simply wasn't carrying as great a burden as bonafide champions until his 4th and 5th title. Even in those titles, Wade put on the greater 1 superstar show. The only thing Kobe has on Wade is the fact that he got to play with Shaq sooner whereas Wade was able to win with a greatly diminished Shaq and STILL outproduce Kobe. Its a shame he didn't have even that version of Shaq for very long, otherwise he would have put Kobes career to shame.

  5. #2435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    This has nothing to do with Kobe. Kobe could have never played in the NBA and LBJ likely doesn't get too much playing time in 1997 out of HS.
    He LIKELY gets alot more than you've projected

  6. #2436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Everything I said holds true. I don't think you understand that those things cannot be mathematically accounted for because they have a systematic impact on performance (this isn't an opinion, it's factual). There are simply too many differences between the situation that Kobe and LBJ were in during their early years to make a reasonable comparison and no amount of mathematics can address this.
    I understand YOU struggle finding ANY sort of objective evidence so of course you find it impossible for even the slightest of hints to exist. Sadly this is why people like you should simply stop speaking on behalf of the statistics/production/efficiency. AGAIN, stick to the ringz breh.

    In other words, IF you have the gall to bring up productive value, have the balls to SHOW US any sort of quantifiable evidence to support your BS theories, otherwise, leave it to the experts.

  7. #2437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    He was in his prime, he wasn't at his peak. And it is appropriate because we can see their performances throughout, and its my opinion that you are dead wrong. Feel free to disagree but that IS the debate at hand.


    False, Wade simply ceased being the player on that productive plane, its why theres a huge difference in his production levels throughout his years with Bron despite having the same role and why there was no resurgence immediately upon their separation. Its because only an idiot would think the Wade at the end of the run was the same guy who started that union. You simply dont understand context of careers so you rely on simplistic stances.


    This argument has already been obliterated as evidence by how great the team played in Kobes absence. He simply wasn't carrying as great a burden as bonafide champions until his 4th and 5th title. Even in those titles, Wade put on the greater 1 superstar show. The only thing Kobe has on Wade is the fact that he got to play with Shaq sooner whereas Wade was able to win with a greatly diminished Shaq and STILL outproduce Kobe. Its a shame he didn't have even that version of Shaq for very long, otherwise he would have put Kobes career to shame.
    Oh boy hahahaha...yep, Wade would have put Kobe's career to shame. This shows just why you have no business being allowed near any data. Wade would probably laugh in your face if you were to say this. This has to be your biggest doofus take in quite sometime (on par with back when you used to think Kobe couldn't lead his team to a title as the best player).

    Here is what we know. Kobe won 3 with shaq whereas Wade won 2 with LBJ and Bosh. Here is also what we can likely infer: prime Kobe would have likely won more than 3 with prime shaq. Wade couldn't do that with a better team so unlikely he even gets to 3 with shaq. That's really the end of it and there isn't much else to discuss. You are wrong, per usual, but Im sure you're used to that by now, especially when it comes to things related to Kobe.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-08-2019 at 06:44 PM.

  8. #2438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I understand YOU struggle finding ANY sort of objective evidence so of course you find it impossible for even the slightest of hints to exist. Sadly this is why people like you should simply stop speaking on behalf of the statistics/production/efficiency. AGAIN, stick to the ringz breh.

    In other words, IF you have the gall to bring up productive value, have the balls to SHOW US any sort of quantifiable evidence to support your BS theories, otherwise, leave it to the experts.
    You seem to not be able to comprehend that what I'm raising are reasons why those numbers aren't useful. Here is the thing you see, Expert A tells another Expert B these types of critiques, it up to Expert B to address them NOT Expert A. The difference here is that only one of us is an expert here and it's not you my friend. So go ahead and earn the right to have an opinion on this or leave it to the people who have decades of experience and have earned the right to comment on this sort of thing.

  9. #2439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    He LIKELY gets alot more than you've projected
    Really? Odd, I don't remember ever once making a single projection as to how much time he would get. Go ahead and point me to the post where I explicitly specified the amount of playing time LBJ would get.

  10. #2440
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    Lebron

    Lebron Jame best player all times check it out
    https://ckk.ai/PickLakers

  11. #2441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    One, actually LBJ averaged slightly more shots per game than Kobe (although the difference is negligible) so you are wrong about this. As far as I can tell, usage rate is about field goal and free throw attempts and makes, minutes played, turnovers and their proportion compared to the teams total on these attributes. It does not account for assists or the amount of time a player spends with the ball.

    Here is a link explaining this:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...how_to_use_it/
    I will refresh your memory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXHz2OhqODY&t=427s this dude from start of the game came down time after time and no one else touched the ball. Even the announcer was like Lakers won a game where Kobe was 6-24 but Lakers dominated the boards. Kobe dominated the ball and he shot more than lebron.

  12. #2442
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I will refresh your memory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXHz2OhqODY&t=427s this dude from start of the game came down time after time and no one else touched the ball. Even the announcer was like Lakers won a game where Kobe was 6-24 but Lakers dominated the boards. Kobe dominated the ball and he shot more than lebron.
    I don't see what one game shows. I didn't say every single game they have ever played, LBJ dominated the ball more than Kobe lol. At any rate, I hope you can see why your usage rate argument doesn't apply here (i.e., why you were wrong).

  13. #2443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I don't see what one game shows. I didn't say every single game they have ever played, LBJ dominated the ball more than Kobe lol. At any rate, I hope you can see why your usage rate argument doesn't apply here (i.e., why you were wrong).
    you did not see kobe came down on 3 or 4 consecutive possessions and jacked very early in the game? No one else touched the ball.

    https://www.sportsgrid.com/real-spor...es-a-ball-hog/

    Besides your back to Lebron and not the Coach system. Who was lebron disciplined coach? Again Kobe jacked even more without Phil. Can you give Lebron the same coach same system and see which one performs better? Lebron can play for all 30 teams as constructed and he will make every last one a playoff contender.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-09-2019 at 12:13 AM.

  14. #2444
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    Bryant is ranked #14 by Bleacher Report (ESPN has him 12)
    LeBron #2

    Eventually Bron will be ranked #1.
    Bryantfans will make up any kind of bologna argument tho......so whatever.
    Kobe Bryant: ranked #14 by Bleacher Report
    Bryant is ranked #12 by ESPN and FOX
    King James: ranked #1-2 along with MJ

  15. #2445
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    Again Kobe could not play with just about any coach. https://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/09/28...-james-harden/

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