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  1. #3391
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    Duplicate.

  2. #3392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I feel like you are putting words into my mouth and or twisting the narrative to in order to nullify the blow that the 2011 NBA Finals were to the legacy of LeBron James. I never said LeBron was the only player ever to choke and or have a bad game or series. That would be ridiculous.

    What I am saying and have said was that LeBron's performance in the 2011 NBA Finals was the worst choke job/meltdwon by far in the history of the game. It was on the biggest stage, the NBA Finals, and yes that matter big time. So, while you may keep brining me examples of first round and second round losses, those will never equal a loss in the NBA Finals; especially, when you just put together the most talented big three of all-time using free agency in a way that players before you were never able to. Yes, that sets the bar a lot higher for LeBron and makes his degree of difficulty on the championships he did win down.

    Dwayne Wade was balling in that series and Chris Bosh was having a great series as well. LeBron was a bout 10 ppg under his norm for the time and he went ghost in four straight forth quarters where those games were up for the taking. Not only were those games close, but the Heat had comfortable leads in a few of those. LeBron literally did nothing but freeze up. He went ghost/invisible and contributed literally nothing to his team which should have been on the verge of winning. He only scored 11 points in 6 fourth quarters that series. 2.2 ppg. That's laughable.
    Nothing is worse than that. No first or second round loss can even be compared. Just the fact of being in the NBA Finals shows that your team was good enough to win it all and you were the closest of any other team that year other than one other. This is not rocket science people.

    Not only that, but LeBron was able to have a hand in putting his team together and brought together the most talented big three of all-time all still in their respective primes. To make matters even worse, after that horrific loss, he would not change up his game or system at all, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh had to learn how to play off the ball better in order to better accommodate the LeBron Jame's system and style of play. Not to mention all the pep talks Dwayne Wade had to give him that following off season to quell his bruised ego. By far the worst meltdown/choke job for an NBA all-time great as an individual. The fact that it was on the biggest stage, the players he had around him, and the fact that his team had a sizable advantage over their opponent all are the key ingredients for this failure cocktail. The greatest failure of all-time. Sad but true.

    I mean, if you can't come up with something on a bigger stage than the NBA Finals, at least give me a scenario where a team was the odds on favorites to win it all at least and lost in the ECF, or WCF to a significantly weaker opponent, and the debacle can be mainly attributed to the lack luster play of their supposed star player at least.
    This makes no sense. Getting farther in the playoffs is always better than not. Choking in the 1st round for a superstar on a title contender is worse than choking in the Finals.

    Youíre saying if LeBron had done the exact same thing only in the 1st round instead of the Finals thatís be better? Thatís like saying Tracy McGrady has a more impressive playoff resume than Karl Malone because at least he didnít lose in the Finals.

  3. #3393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Keep on listening to guys like Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe, and Collin Cowherd. Five dudes on some random website on the internet who mostly have weak arguments that stem from their "love" of their favorite player is hardly convincing evidence to me. Fact is most former and current players don't follow that agenda. Now, do I listen to either set of opinions? No, I am capable of formulating my own opinion based on the current data laid out in front of me. Not only that, but I realize how weak it is to use other people's opinions to validate my own. I can actually back up what I say without using such a false crutch.
    I donít listen to any of those guys (I do, however, still have my Shannon Sharpe jersey from back in the dayó-the only sports jersey I ever boughtó-didnít know he was debating basketball these days). Iíve also formed my own opinion and it just so happens to align with 99% of people on the subject.

  4. #3394
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I feel like you are putting words into my mouth and or twisting the narrative to in order to nullify the blow that the 2011 NBA Finals were to the legacy of LeBron James. I never said LeBron was the only player ever to choke and or have a bad game or series. That would be ridiculous.

    What I am saying and have said was that LeBron's performance in the 2011 NBA Finals was the worst choke job/meltdwon by far in the history of the game. It was on the biggest stage, the NBA Finals, and yes that matter big time. So, while you may keep brining me examples of first round and second round losses, those will never equal a loss in the NBA Finals; especially, when you just put together the most talented big three of all-time using free agency in a way that players before you were never able to. Yes, that sets the bar a lot higher for LeBron and makes his degree of difficulty on the championships he did win down.

    Dwayne Wade was balling in that series and Chris Bosh was having a great series as well. LeBron was a bout 10 ppg under his norm for the time and he went ghost in four straight forth quarters where those games were up for the taking. Not only were those games close, but the Heat had comfortable leads in a few of those. LeBron literally did nothing but freeze up. He went ghost/invisible and contributed literally nothing to his team which should have been on the verge of winning. He only scored 11 points in 6 fourth quarters that series. 2.2 ppg. That's laughable.
    Nothing is worse than that. No first or second round loss can even be compared. Just the fact of being in the NBA Finals shows that your team was good enough to win it all and you were the closest of any other team that year other than one other. This is not rocket science people.

    Not only that, but LeBron was able to have a hand in putting his team together and brought together the most talented big three of all-time all still in their respective primes. To make matters even worse, after that horrific loss, he would not change up his game or system at all, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh had to learn how to play off the ball better in order to better accommodate the LeBron Jame's system and style of play. Not to mention all the pep talks Dwayne Wade had to give him that following off season to quell his bruised ego. By far the worst meltdown/choke job for an NBA all-time great as an individual. The fact that it was on the biggest stage, the players he had around him, and the fact that his team had a sizable advantage over their opponent all are the key ingredients for this failure cocktail. The greatest failure of all-time. Sad but true.

    I mean, if you can't come up with something on a bigger stage than the NBA Finals, at least give me a scenario where a team was the odds on favorites to win it all at least and lost in the ECF, or WCF to a significantly weaker opponent, and the debacle can be mainly attributed to the lack luster play of their supposed star player at least.
    I already gave you a hint. championship caliber team, loses in r1 (might've been r2 I'll double check later) to a vastly inferior squad while you get locked down. 4th quarters? imagine an entire series of inefficiency and no shows

  5. #3395
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This makes no sense. Getting farther in the playoffs is always better than not. Choking in the 1st round for a superstar on a title contender is worse than choking in the Finals.

    Youíre saying if LeBron had done the exact same thing only in the 1st round instead of the Finals thatís be better? Thatís like saying Tracy McGrady has a more impressive playoff resume than Karl Malone because at least he didnít lose in the Finals.
    Dirk took a team to 67 wins and a first place finish in the West in Ď07 but at least he didnít lose in the Finals that year! What is this guy talking about? That was the Heatís big threeís first year together and they had some growing pains and hardly any depth. Lebron finally had a few star players around him and just choked. Hard. Against a team that had been killing it for almost a decade but couldnít get over the hump. The Mavs finally went on that impressive run.

    That could take him out from being over Jordan (although he could still do it with more rings) but thatís about it. This guy is making it sound like itís a career breaker.

  6. #3396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I feel like you are putting words into my mouth and or twisting the narrative to in order to nullify the blow that the 2011 NBA Finals were to the legacy of LeBron James. I never said LeBron was the only player ever to choke and or have a bad game or series. That would be ridiculous.

    What I am saying and have said was that LeBron's performance in the 2011 NBA Finals was the worst choke job/meltdwon by far in the history of the game. It was on the biggest stage, the NBA Finals, and yes that matter big time. So, while you may keep brining me examples of first round and second round losses, those will never equal a loss in the NBA Finals; especially, when you just put together the most talented big three of all-time using free agency in a way that players before you were never able to. Yes, that sets the bar a lot higher for LeBron and makes his degree of difficulty on the championships he did win down.

    Dwayne Wade was balling in that series and Chris Bosh was having a great series as well. LeBron was a bout 10 ppg under his norm for the time and he went ghost in four straight forth quarters where those games were up for the taking. Not only were those games close, but the Heat had comfortable leads in a few of those. LeBron literally did nothing but freeze up. He went ghost/invisible and contributed literally nothing to his team which should have been on the verge of winning. He only scored 11 points in 6 fourth quarters that series. 2.2 ppg. That's laughable.
    Nothing is worse than that. No first or second round loss can even be compared. Just the fact of being in the NBA Finals shows that your team was good enough to win it all and you were the closest of any other team that year other than one other. This is not rocket science people.

    Not only that, but LeBron was able to have a hand in putting his team together and brought together the most talented big three of all-time all still in their respective primes. To make matters even worse, after that horrific loss, he would not change up his game or system at all, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh had to learn how to play off the ball better in order to better accommodate the LeBron Jame's system and style of play. Not to mention all the pep talks Dwayne Wade had to give him that following off season to quell his bruised ego. By far the worst meltdown/choke job for an NBA all-time great as an individual. The fact that it was on the biggest stage, the players he had around him, and the fact that his team had a sizable advantage over their opponent all are the key ingredients for this failure cocktail. The greatest failure of all-time. Sad but true.

    I mean, if you can't come up with something on a bigger stage than the NBA Finals, at least give me a scenario where a team was the odds on favorites to win it all at least and lost in the ECF, or WCF to a significantly weaker opponent, and the debacle can be mainly attributed to the lack luster play of their supposed star player at least.
    Lol i dont even get why what you said about Lebron is looked at as a bad thing. Sound very much like a regular NBA team.

  7. #3397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Dirk took a team to 67 wins and a first place finish in the West in Ď07 but at least he didnít lose in the Finals that year! What is this guy talking about? That was the Heatís big threeís first year together and they had some growing pains and hardly any depth. Lebron finally had a few star players around him and just choked. Hard. Against a team that had been killing it for almost a decade but couldnít get over the hump. The Mavs finally went on that impressive run.

    That could take him out from being over Jordan (although he could still do it with more rings) but thatís about it. This guy is making it sound like itís a career breaker.
    Did MJ choked not beating Detroit, Did Shaq choked not beating Houston and the couple of seasons before Phil joined LA, Did Kings Choked, Blazers, Spurs, OKC, What about the First Season Pau joined Lakers, etc. Why folks making it so hard to accept the better team won not the Biggest Names.
    Last edited by ldawg; 02-17-2020 at 10:41 PM.

  8. #3398
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    As Far as this Season goes Lakers are the under dogs to the Clippers. Clippers on paper have the better team, more experienced coaches who also are not only put together a few months ago. One of these teams have to lose. Its hardly going to be a choke job.

    Now if you say OKC choked being up 3-1 to GSW then yes thats a legit choke job. All you needed was 1 win and just could not close the deal. Two teams exchanging wins is not a choke job. Sorry
    Last edited by ldawg; 02-17-2020 at 10:58 PM.

  9. #3399
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    Miami Lost both regular season games to Dallas and they exchanged Wins in the playoffs. Explain how is that a choke job.

  10. #3400
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Miami Lost both regular season games to Dallas and they exchanged Wins in the playoffs. Explain how is that a choke job.
    love lebron... he is my goat or top 2 player..... it was a choke... i dont give a **** what he did against dallas in the regular season and i know the fit wasnt ideal with wade who he had to carry for the tenure of the heat but you cant lose that series to dallas period.

  11. #3401
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    As Far as this Season goes Lakers are the under dogs to the Clippers. Clippers on paper have the better team, more experienced coaches who also are not only put together a few months ago. One of these teams have to lose. Its hardly going to be a choke job.

    Now if you say OKC choked being up 3-1 to GSW then yes thats a legit choke job. All you needed was 1 win and just could not close the deal. Two teams exchanging wins is not a choke job. Sorry
    At the same time with what has been said before you can say that getting 3 wins and taking the seri s to 7 to begin with is an accomplishment, no? Or that Warriors coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win it is some miraculous accomplishment?

    It's not black or white, there's too much grey areas and yet people want to simplify everything and moan about everyone who's not following their simplicity.

  12. #3402
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    love lebron... he is my goat or top 2 player..... it was a choke... i dont give a **** what he did against dallas in the regular season and i know the fit wasnt ideal with wade who he had to carry for the tenure of the heat but you cant lose that series to dallas period.
    Lebron played bad in htat series, that's what looks awful. Not the idea of losing to the Mavs. They were a legit "team". They played together. Mavs were a better team for sure. Lebron played awful and that's what will stick.

    Lebron the Goat though. I mean he's putting up 25-7-10 this season lol. Him and MJ top 2. Any order is fine they both legends.
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  13. #3403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I feel like you are putting words into my mouth and or twisting the narrative to in order to nullify the blow that the 2011 NBA Finals were to the legacy of LeBron James. I never said LeBron was the only player ever to choke and or have a bad game or series. That would be ridiculous.

    What I am saying and have said was that LeBron's performance in the 2011 NBA Finals was the worst choke job/meltdwon by far in the history of the game. It was on the biggest stage, the NBA Finals, and yes that matter big time. So, while you may keep brining me examples of first round and second round losses, those will never equal a loss in the NBA Finals; especially, when you just put together the most talented big three of all-time using free agency in a way that players before you were never able to. Yes, that sets the bar a lot higher for LeBron and makes his degree of difficulty on the championships he did win down.

    Dwayne Wade was balling in that series and Chris Bosh was having a great series as well. LeBron was a bout 10 ppg under his norm for the time and he went ghost in four straight forth quarters where those games were up for the taking. Not only were those games close, but the Heat had comfortable leads in a few of those. LeBron literally did nothing but freeze up. He went ghost/invisible and contributed literally nothing to his team which should have been on the verge of winning. He only scored 11 points in 6 fourth quarters that series. 2.2 ppg. That's laughable.
    Nothing is worse than that. No first or second round loss can even be compared. Just the fact of being in the NBA Finals shows that your team was good enough to win it all and you were the closest of any other team that year other than one other. This is not rocket science people.

    Not only that, but LeBron was able to have a hand in putting his team together and brought together the most talented big three of all-time all still in their respective primes. To make matters even worse, after that horrific loss, he would not change up his game or system at all, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh had to learn how to play off the ball better in order to better accommodate the LeBron Jame's system and style of play. Not to mention all the pep talks Dwayne Wade had to give him that following off season to quell his bruised ego. By far the worst meltdown/choke job for an NBA all-time great as an individual. The fact that it was on the biggest stage, the players he had around him, and the fact that his team had a sizable advantage over their opponent all are the key ingredients for this failure cocktail. The greatest failure of all-time. Sad but true.

    I mean, if you can't come up with something on a bigger stage than the NBA Finals, at least give me a scenario where a team was the odds on favorites to win it all at least and lost in the ECF, or WCF to a significantly weaker opponent, and the debacle can be mainly attributed to the lack luster play of their supposed star player at least.
    There it is... the ole its better to lose in the 1st round rather than in the finals take. I love this one.
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  14. #3404
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    love lebron... he is my goat or top 2 player..... it was a choke... i dont give a **** what he did against dallas in the regular season and i know the fit wasnt ideal with wade who he had to carry for the tenure of the heat but you cant lose that series to dallas period.
    Dallas like Celtics was a group of seasoned stars that came together and won. Given their age their window was short but your pretty much saying they were scrubs. With Lebrons age Lakers should have no shot this season to win the title. Maybe you can use another word for his performance but choke donít fit.
    Last edited by ldawg; 02-18-2020 at 04:13 PM.

  15. #3405
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    At the same time with what has been said before you can say that getting 3 wins and taking the seri s to 7 to begin with is an accomplishment, no? Or that Warriors coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win it is some miraculous accomplishment?

    It's not black or white, there's too much grey areas and yet people want to simplify everything and moan about everyone who's not following their simplicity.
    Simple one team displayed clutch Performance the other choked under pressure and panicked. All you needed was one Solid 4th quarter in three tries to seal the deal. Anytime two teams play one will be the winner and one will be the loser. You donít get get swept or lose in the first round. Its worst than losing in the final in 6 or 7 games. Itís one thing to lose and another be embarrassed.

    Yes it have different levels to losing. If you were a boxer would you prefer to be knocked out in the 1st round or the judges decision? One is a embarrassing lost that could be career ending. The other you left the ring with your pride In tact.

    Do you like watching a competitive game or a lopsided game. Itís as simple as that.
    Last edited by ldawg; 02-18-2020 at 04:52 PM.

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