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  1. #1846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    Lakers defeated the Spurs 4 times in the playoffs. Kobe led the Lakers in scoring all 4 times. They went 4-0, 4-1, 4-2 and 4-1. Kobe had Pops number. Every single year Lakers won the Spurs had the leagues #1 defense. Kobe broke thru the defense using ISO. Always attack the Spurs strong side and Spurs had no answer.

    2008 Kobe was in his 12th year. Kobe on the Cavs and itís going 7 games.
    Agree to disagree

  2. #1847
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Thats right same difference 3 stars CP3, Kobe, Howard.
    If you think having Pau Gasol and not having Pau Gasol equals "same difference" then... wow...

    Also, I really can't think of a worse assemblage of stars than those three. Like why doesn't Dwight just leave as he did in real life? He had enough trouble with just Kobe. Imagine how he'd respond to Drill Sargeant CP3. CP3 and Kobe both need the ball, and they need it in drastically different ways (Kobe wants to iso, CP3 wants to stand at the top of the key and run floppy every possession). CP3 worked with Harden, but that was an older CP3 more willing to compromise stylistically, and more importantly, they had a ton of shooting around them. There wasn't much shooting on that Lakers team.
    POOP

  3. #1848
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    The game's purpose is to score.
    how many championships have the suns won? How about iverson? How about Melo and how about harden?


    having more PPG in basketball does not always make you the better scorer...


    lets go by right now as an example...

    trae young is scoring 26.6 points

    Towns is scoring 26.5 points

    is young the better scorer of the basketball by that .1 point even though he takes almost 3 more shots to get.1 more points? If the point of basketball was just to score we would have make it take it rules

  4. #1849
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    Im guessing you're referencing the warriors teams from the late 2000s. Depends on what you define as a contender. Playoff contender? I think so, championship contender? Probably not.... but Gasol makes those warriors teams better
    Better is one thing, the key here is to make them a team that's going to make noise in the Playoffs. He wouldn't do that. He's by definition a #2. And he needs a legit #1 to be part of a contender, not someone like Monta Ellis who I used as an example.

    Go back to that Memphis team that traded Pau to the Lakers. What's their move if they want to become a contender and keep Pau? Trade for who? They had Rugy Gay and Juan Navarro was doing okay-ish but he wasn't built for the NBA (too short for a SG, too slow for a PG). They were still kinda awful as a team and collapsed after tradinga way Pau of course. It's not like their team was bad, they had a good enough core with Mike Miller, Kyle Lowry and a rookie Mike Conley with Rudy Gay being rated as one of the best newcomers in the league (sophomore season). It still wasn't really that great for them. To get over the hump, they needed a legit #1 option that wouldn't occupy Gasol's position, role or area of influence. And that'd also mean that Rudy Gay was going to be the main trading chip.

    It is obvious that Pau Gasol had to be paired up with a top 5 player in the league to become an NBA contender. If he played for a top 5 team (ie Spurs) then surely he'd also have a lot more chances.

    But don't act as if putting Pau Gasol in the 2008 Knicks would make that team reach the Playoffs if for example he was there instead of Zach Randolph.

    When a player makes a good team better but you can argue that he won't have a great impact in a bad team, he's just a good player in a good situation. Pau Gasol has the luxury of being a leading figure outside the NBA so he carries more experience than the average NBA player, which helped the Lakers in Playoff time, but other than that, as an individual player, he was replaceable. Not with Gooden or Haslem, but with several other very good players.

  5. #1850
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    how many championships have the suns won? How about iverson? How about Melo and how about harden?


    having more PPG in basketball does not always make you the better scorer...


    lets go by right now as an example...

    trae young is scoring 26.6 points

    Towns is scoring 26.5 points

    is young the better scorer of the basketball by that .1 point even though he takes almost 3 more shots to get.1 more points? If the point of basketball was just to score we would have make it take it rules
    I didn't say PPG is what matters. I said that the game's purpose is to score. Team with most points wins. If you can stop the other team from scoring, then great, you are ensuring that they do not meet the purpose.

    I do rate defense much higher than offense which is why I find the regular season of the 2010s an unbearable period. And it's not like Playoffs has that much greater defense, but it sure is better than this RS circus. I've seen All Star games with better defense than what I've seen in the last 10 years or so from random RS games.

  6. #1851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinnsanity View Post
    If you think having Pau Gasol and not having Pau Gasol equals "same difference" then... wow...

    Also, I really can't think of a worse assemblage of stars than those three. Like why doesn't Dwight just leave as he did in real life? He had enough trouble with just Kobe. Imagine how he'd respond to Drill Sargeant CP3. CP3 and Kobe both need the ball, and they need it in drastically different ways (Kobe wants to iso, CP3 wants to stand at the top of the key and run floppy every possession). CP3 worked with Harden, but that was an older CP3 more willing to compromise stylistically, and more importantly, they had a ton of shooting around them. There wasn't much shooting on that Lakers team.
    So 1 this prove my point you just cant put anyone together the pieces have to fit. And 2 Lakers always collected stars so why the rest of the players not form a 1 2 or even 3 punch.
    Last edited by ldawg; 11-26-2019 at 07:56 AM.

  7. #1852
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    I didn't say PPG is what matters. I said that the game's purpose is to score. Team with most points wins. If you can stop the other team from scoring, then great, you are ensuring that they do not meet the purpose.

    I do rate defense much higher than offense which is why I find the regular season of the 2010s an unbearable period. And it's not like Playoffs has that much greater defense, but it sure is better than this RS circus. I've seen All Star games with better defense than what I've seen in the last 10 years or so from random RS games.
    I think most people like offence over defense since its more entertaining. Pistons and Spurs never really push the needle on excitement compared to Gsw, Suns, Lakers, etc. Kobe offensive outputs were entertaining. If you put up 27ppg back then you were the man. Today is not as physical but today i think to much injuries. A healthy GSW Nets would have stepped up the competition.
    Last edited by ldawg; 11-26-2019 at 08:13 AM.

  8. #1853
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Better is one thing, the key here is to make them a team that's going to make noise in the Playoffs. He wouldn't do that. He's by definition a #2. And he needs a legit #1 to be part of a contender, not someone like Monta Ellis who I used as an example.

    Go back to that Memphis team that traded Pau to the Lakers. What's their move if they want to become a contender and keep Pau? Trade for who? They had Rugy Gay and Juan Navarro was doing okay-ish but he wasn't built for the NBA (too short for a SG, too slow for a PG). They were still kinda awful as a team and collapsed after tradinga way Pau of course. It's not like their team was bad, they had a good enough core with Mike Miller, Kyle Lowry and a rookie Mike Conley with Rudy Gay being rated as one of the best newcomers in the league (sophomore season). It still wasn't really that great for them. To get over the hump, they needed a legit #1 option that wouldn't occupy Gasol's position, role or area of influence. And that'd also mean that Rudy Gay was going to be the main trading chip.

    It is obvious that Pau Gasol had to be paired up with a top 5 player in the league to become an NBA contender. If he played for a top 5 team (ie Spurs) then surely he'd also have a lot more chances.

    But don't act as if putting Pau Gasol in the 2008 Knicks would make that team reach the Playoffs if for example he was there instead of Zach Randolph.

    When a player makes a good team better but you can argue that he won't have a great impact in a bad team, he's just a good player in a good situation. Pau Gasol has the luxury of being a leading figure outside the NBA so he carries more experience than the average NBA player, which helped the Lakers in Playoff time, but other than that, as an individual player, he was replaceable. Not with Gooden or Haslem, but with several other very good players.
    You literally responded to a post of mine saying Pau Gasol does not make every team better. Now youre saying that Pau Gasol making the team better "is 1 thing" which is a nice way to say it doesn't matter, which is basically my entire point of responding in this thread.

    Im not saying that at all. I am saying Pau Gasol on the 2008 Knicks are a better team than the 2008 Knicks without Pau Gasol.
    Last edited by MarkieMark48; 11-26-2019 at 09:40 AM.
    YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!!!!!

    HAPPY RUSSEV DAY!!!

    2019 PSD Fantasy Nascar Champion

  9. #1854
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    how many championships have the suns won? How about iverson? How about Melo and how about harden?


    having more PPG in basketball does not always make you the better scorer...


    lets go by right now as an example...

    trae young is scoring 26.6 points

    Towns is scoring 26.5 points

    is young the better scorer of the basketball by that .1 point even though he takes almost 3 more shots to get.1 more points? If the point of basketball was just to score we would have make it take it rules
    ok now team up Young and Towns. You now have a solid playoff foundation. Now that youíve done that what other pieces are you going to surround them with? How about the system that your going to run? The coach and chemistry they will have? Are you going to be able to afford a quality bench, after all not all teams had pockets like Lakers. can they stay healthy?

    I hate to say it but did certain teams get help for ratings? How about calls not being called equal? No excuse but something to think about. Lots have been done to try to curb this. Replay during games, tampering, etc.
    Last edited by ldawg; 11-26-2019 at 12:01 PM.

  10. #1855
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    Adding a player without removing someone else of course is going to be an improvement.

    When people say Michael Jordan wouldn't win without Pippen there are two schools of thought. One, the majority which is in the wrong, suggests that we simply eliminate Pippen from the Bulls' roster or the NBA altogether (so that Jordan doesn't even face Pippen as a rival). The other, which is the obvious one for anyone who simply processes the comparison, suggests that this player would simply be replacing someone else.

    Jordan without Pippen doesn't win. Of course, his next best teammate would be Horace Grant and then it's Billy Cartwright or something.
    But if you replace Pippen with someone like Mark Aguirre or James Worthy then the first threepeat is still a possibility.

    Same way with Pau Gasol. Who do you replace him with and then day that the team becomes better? If this was a free market system where you can just add a player on you team I'd agree, but this is the NBA and you have to trade and sacrifice talent in order to bring talent. The easiest way to do this is to assume a straight swap with the guy on the other team occupying the same spot/role. So replacing Pau Gasol with Zach Randolph in my view does not make the Knicks a playoffs team.

  11. #1856
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    Kobe personality was an issue and could not play with just anyone. It could have been kg and not pau but kg did not want to play with Kobe. This also ended up happening with Howard. Kobe also could not be coached by just anyone.
    Last edited by ldawg; 11-26-2019 at 12:30 PM.

  12. #1857
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Kobe personality was an issue and could not play with just anyone. It could have been kg and not pau but kg did not want to play with Kobe. This also ended up happening with Howard. Kobe also could not be coached by just anyone.
    Agreed here. This parameter is always ignored.

    But it's not like Lebron is a very coachable player and didn't he have fights with some players in the Cavs early on? Like Delonte West.

  13. #1858
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Agreed here. This parameter is always ignored.

    But it's not like Lebron is a very coachable player and didn't he have fights with some players in the Cavs early on? Like Delonte West.
    yes but look at what west did and look at the guy your talking about. https://youtu.be/zX1NNgTlw-w

    Kobe was going to be a top tier player no matter the team and would have won more scoring titles. I just donít know if he would have won rings if he did not land in the right situation.

    Could KG and Paul won more titles had they came together earlier? What about Kings or kG with wolves if it was not for Shaq. What if Kobe has to deal with shaq and another top guard. This is the thing Kobe had Shaq and Phil.

    To change one thing changes everything. It have a chain reaction.
    Last edited by ldawg; 11-26-2019 at 12:51 PM.

  14. #1859
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    Kobe had Shaq and Shaq had Kobe. Phil just agreed to coach them. He'd be crazy not to.

    Speaking of what ifs, tell me how a Barkley-Miller tandem fairs in the 90s. Or a Richmond-D Robinson... You cannot judge players based on who their teammates were. This was my original point.

  15. #1860
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Kobe had Shaq and Shaq had Kobe. Phil just agreed to coach them. He'd be crazy not to.

    Speaking of what ifs, tell me how a Barkley-Miller tandem fairs in the 90s. Or a Richmond-D Robinson... You cannot judge players based on who their teammates were. This was my original point.
    thats my point as well from the get go with Bigmoves03 for a like a few months. Team success do not rate the best player. Way too many factors involved.

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