Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 319 of 451 FirstFirst ... 219269309317318319320321329369419 ... LastLast
Results 4,771 to 4,785 of 6764
  1. #4771
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    34,007
    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Does your definition of "grow" mean that the player has to be a young and develop into an all-star? I'm curious because I feel like it would be pretty easy to show that teammates play better with him.
    I mean get better. Not play better.

    A 3 point shooter is going to shoot a better % with Lebron. They'll get more open looks. That doesn't mean the guy improved IMO. He's the same guy, just shooting a better %. Lebron is helping him play better, but that guy isn't getting any better as a player.

    From what I see, Lebron has been almost allergic to any sort of system change or player development. Both his MIA and second CLE stops went the same. He went there, put together a team of him and 2 all stars. He traded any youth remaining and future picks for spot up shooters and pushes anything left to the back of the bench in favor of veteran stop gaps. Over time, the team bled out of talent as those guys aged. Then Lebron left.

    Some of this is situation. Players weren't as free to jump ship back then. You couldn't bleed a team for all it's worth and then bounce. Lebron has that luxury to do so and he's taken full advantage. But it's also why, compared to the other greats, he hasn't been able to build sustained excellence in a franchise the way they did.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  2. #4772
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No, it "feels" pro LBJ because (1) multiple posters have said they are pro LBJ, (2) a dude got banned for posting stuff to troll laker/kobe fans, and (3) as soon as someone post a remark that isn't pro LBJ most of the forum gangs up on them and bashes them. There are a few in here who engage in civil discourse, but many, many other posters have come on and bashed anyone who has a different perspective. I don't see any Kobe supporters bashing LBJ supporters on here.
    I must of missed all that. I have been posting on this topic for a while and did not see that. I do However see posters not just in the main form but also in Lakers forum how get upset when folks donít agree with them. I donít think that is isolated to Lebron. Even in Lakers main forum it had many anti Lebron. So I donít see the issue happens all the time.

  3. #4773
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    34,007
    People talk about how Jordan was lucky for his team to draft Pippen. He was. But Pippen wasn't an all star as a rookie. He wasn't an all star as a second year player. He grew into one playing with Jordan.

    If Lebron's team drafted a Scottie Pippen then Lebron would demand him traded in year 2 for veteran help that would have made them better short term. And then once his contract was up, he'd leave to go play with he already developed Scottie Pippen type somewhere else.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  4. #4774
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    8,978
    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I must of missed all that. I have been posting on this topic for a while and did not see that. I do However see posters not just in the main form but also in Lakers forum how get upset when folks donít agree with them. I donít think that is isolated to Lebron. Even in Lakers main forum it had many anti Lebron. So I donít see the issue happens all the time.
    I never said there wasn't bias in the laker forum, but the laker forum doesn't have a topic of Kobe vs. LBJ so that's not relevant to this thread.

  5. #4775
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    8,978
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    People talk about how Jordan was lucky for his team to draft Pippen. He was. But Pippen wasn't an all star as a rookie. He wasn't an all star as a second year player. He grew into one playing with Jordan.

    If Lebron's team drafted a Scottie Pippen then Lebron would demand him traded in year 2 for veteran help that would have made them better short term. And then once his contract was up, he'd leave to go play with he already developed Scottie Pippen type somewhere else.
    Pretty spot on

  6. #4776
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    GMT +2
    Posts
    13,796
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    From what I see, Lebron has been almost allergic to any sort of system change or player development. Both his MIA and second CLE stops went the same. He went there, put together a team of him and 2 all stars. He traded any youth remaining and future picks for spot up shooters and pushes anything left to the back of the bench in favor of veteran stop gaps. Over time, the team bled out of talent as those guys aged. Then Lebron left.
    You make him sound like locust.

  7. #4777
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,020
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I mean get better. Not play better.

    A 3 point shooter is going to shoot a better % with Lebron. They'll get more open looks. That doesn't mean the guy improved IMO. He's the same guy, just shooting a better %. Lebron is helping him play better, but that guy isn't getting any better as a player.

    From what I see, Lebron has been almost allergic to any sort of system change or player development. Both his MIA and second CLE stops went the same. He went there, put together a team of him and 2 all stars. He traded any youth remaining and future picks for spot up shooters and pushes anything left to the back of the bench in favor of veteran stop gaps. Over time, the team bled out of talent as those guys aged. Then Lebron left.

    Some of this is situation. Players weren't as free to jump ship back then. You couldn't bleed a team for all it's worth and then bounce. Lebron has that luxury to do so and he's taken full advantage. But it's also why, compared to the other greats, he hasn't been able to build sustained excellence in a franchise the way they did.
    People are so caught up in what happened before their eyes are closed to anything different. Lebron made it very clear he was not Mj magic or any guy before him and heís Lebron. I think since he did things different it ruffled a few feathers for folks who expects a play back. Itís a different time those guys did not make what the guys make today and did not have that freedom. And the ones who wanted to move we did not know about it since media access was limited. Magic just said he wanted to be traded we all know kobe was about to be traded, Shaq moved, etc Itís just a different time. People are holding modern guys to yesterday standards.
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-23-2020 at 03:15 PM.

  8. #4778
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    458
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I think Lebron is clearly one of the GOATs. I probably go Jordan still but wouldn't argue either way. Keeping in mind the context of this discussion, here are some of the things that take away from his as the absolute GOAT:

    1) 09 loss to ORL, 11 loss to DAL, 13 loss to SA. I don't care that he loss to SA in CLE with a clearly outmatched team. No shame in losing to BOS's Big 3 while in CLE. Losing to the Warriors is totally fine with me. But in 09 he should have beat ORL. I know ORL had a deeper cast of role players but it's still Lebron. I think he should have won that series. We all know about the DAL series. I think he gets a pass on the loss to SA with MIA. Duncan and Ginobli were way past their primes. Kawhi wasn't yet in his. Lebron still had Bosh who showed the next year after Lebron left he was still an individually great player. Wade was on the back 9, but still a great player. If people are going to hype up Manu at that stage of his career it's not like Ray was worlds different by that point. I think in an argument for GOAT it's far we hold this against him.

    2) I don't think he's ever brought anyone along. Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love had all been all stars before Lebron joined up with them. I'm pretty sure the only player who ether wasn't an all star and then become one playing with Lebron or grew into one while playing with him after being drafted was Mo Williams. And he didn't even really do more than he did in MIL, he just made the all star team because winning teams get more than 1. Watching the Jordan documentary, I thought one of the more impressive things was how he challenged teammates. He really pushed them to get better and tougher. Lebron doesn't do that - he either bounces to go join up with new teammates or he goes to the GM to get them traded.

    People explain away Lebron jumping teams because he didn't have the tools at this stops. And by the end of his runs it's usually true. But in general, the trend for Lebron has been to go to a team and then bleed away their overall talent level gradually because he pushes young guys out of the rotation for short term vets. I've never seen him actively help a player grow and I think it's a big reason why he's had to jump teams compared other all time GOATs who were able to win over long stretches in one place.
    Dude be actin like Galactus lol. Devourer of worlds.

  9. #4779
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    458
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    People talk about how Jordan was lucky for his team to draft Pippen. He was. But Pippen wasn't an all star as a rookie. He wasn't an all star as a second year player. He grew into one playing with Jordan.

    If Lebron's team drafted a Scottie Pippen then Lebron would demand him traded in year 2 for veteran help that would have made them better short term. And then once his contract was up, he'd leave to go play with he already developed Scottie Pippen type somewhere else.
    Dude!!! Exactly. I've been telling people that for years. It's hard for them to grasp that concept. When your looking at things through the rose colored goggles of a "fanboy", you don't see things in proper context. There are none do blind as those who will not see.

  10. #4780
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    33,460
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    People talk about how Jordan was lucky for his team to draft Pippen. He was. But Pippen wasn't an all star as a rookie. He wasn't an all star as a second year player. He grew into one playing with Jordan.

    If Lebron's team drafted a Scottie Pippen then Lebron would demand him traded in year 2 for veteran help that would have made them better short term. And then once his contract was up, he'd leave to go play with he already developed Scottie Pippen type somewhere else.
    And yet he stuck around Cleveland the first time for 8 years. If he was so prone to leaving, how come he stayed in Cleveland so long?

  11. #4781
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    3,805
    Bruce Bowen ranks Kobe #2 all time.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GetUpESPN...1%2Fframe.html

  12. #4782
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    458
    Now there are five of us arguing pretty much the same point and about two of them in opposition lol. Maybe now we can claim a heavy majority in our favor and act like they are absolutely crazy for not agreeing with us and begin our own weak *** shaming tactics.

  13. #4783
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    458
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    Bruce Bowen ranks Kobe #2 all time.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GetUpESPN...1%2Fframe.html
    He must be in the vocal minority. According to these guys, only about .000001% of people don't agree with them as having LeBron the second GOAT of all-time lol. I don't know where they get their numbers from either by the way.

  14. #4784
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    33,460
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Now there are five of us arguing pretty much the same point and about two of them in opposition lol. Maybe now we can claim a heavy majority in our favor and act like they are absolutely crazy for not agreeing with us and begin our own weak *** shaming tactics.
    There were 17 arguing the opposite point you're making in the first 2 pages of the thread. Sorry, you're still in the heavy minority. You guys make up for it by posting a lot though, I'll give you that.

  15. #4785
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    458
    Pretty sure that Dwayne Wade has Kobe ranked number 2 all-time as well. Not saying I agree with him, just showing that the opinion is not the oddity they are claiming it is. It's not a foregone conclusion that LBJ is number two all-time moving up to surpass Jordan with a bullet wand will do so once he becomes the leading scorer of all-time. They are listening to too much Max Kellerman, Shannon Sharpe, and of course Gonzo (aks. Nick Wright). Or as I like to call him, Nick Wrong.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •