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  1. #2296
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    Yep they want the younger guys to live in regret like those old head who was afraid to move. Be foolish and stay hopeful to get lucky. When itís time to sit at the champions table Barkley your not invited. Ewing sorry your not invited, Karl sorry dude your not invited, etc

  2. #2297
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Yep prime shaq and flash could have won 3 titles. I am sorry but as good as shaq and Kobe duo was the underachieve.
    Its an interesting debate, I do think Wade would have won more with Shaq than Kobe but so much of it is about timing. He never came in as a youngster so which year he shows up can be abit unfair. If we say he comes in at the same age and compare the 2 at the same age, I can see them winning more games for sure. Wade was FAR more productive than Kobe when he won with Shaq and far more productive when he was on a single man squad. Peak Wade was a very special player tho

  3. #2298
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Yep they want the younger guys to live in regret like those old head who was afraid to move. Be foolish and stay hopeful to get lucky. When itís time to sit at the champions table Barkley your not invited. Ewing sorry your not invited, Karl sorry dude your not invited, etc
    Its almost like fans stress championships over actually being the better player. Elvin Hayes was not a winner despite his championship.
    Last edited by Chronz; 12-04-2019 at 09:42 PM.

  4. #2299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Its an interesting debate, I do think Wade would have won more with Shaq than Kobe but so much of it is about timing. He never came in as a youngster so which year he shows up can be abit unfair. If we say he comes in at the same age and compare the 2 at the same age, I can see them winning more games for sure. Wade was FAR more productive than Kobe when he won with Shaq and far more productive when he was on a single man squad. Peak Wade was a very special player tho
    Young flash I am sure would have loved playing with prime shaq if timing was right. Would have saved him from being banged up early on and he was the type to play well with Shaq. I think he would have better chemistry from a personal standpoint.

  5. #2300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Its almost like fans stress championships over being an actually better player. Elvin Hayes was not a winner despite his championship.
    I think because itís the goal or the purpose of the game so it becomes the measurement to the naked eye.

  6. #2301
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    Truth is Shaq and Wade do win. Shaq was getting that ring no matter what. Wade has shown he is a top tier #2 player on a team. Wade would not be getting the MVP and I can see him ok with that.

    What makes Shaq and Kobe so special? They hated each other and still won 3 in a row. Shaq and Kobe where the best 2 players in the league at one point in LA. Itís almost impossible to even make the playoffs if your team has beef.

  7. #2302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    Truth is Shaq and Wade do win. Shaq was getting that ring no matter what. Wade has shown he is a top tier #2 player on a team. Wade would not be getting the MVP and I can see him ok with that.

    What makes Shaq and Kobe so special? They hated each other and still won 3 in a row. Shaq and Kobe where the best 2 players in the league at one point in LA. Itís almost impossible to even make the playoffs if your team has beef.
    I think people overstate the whole comraderie thing being necessary. Like CP3 and Harden allegedly had a falling out of sort and there has been a severe dropoff IMO. Come to think about it, there was that one year where chemistry really held the Rockets down (Harden vs Dwight). I know Shaq thinks the entire concept is BS but of course he would. Rondo and Ray Allen hated each other to a higher degree and they were pretty good. Kyrie is prolly the only guy who could hinder a team in the locker room to any significant degree. We'll see how the superior chemistry in Philly helps them over time.

    Kobe and Shaq still respected each other, it wasn't until Kobe outed him to the Cops that Shaq really began hating Kobe.

  8. #2303
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Well, wade won with a much lesser version of Shaq so we already know we could replace Wade with Kobe for all 3 of those rings with Prime Shaq, and most likely won much easier because heís such a better team player.
    Not at all, because they didn't play the same competition and it was only 1 title. Winning a 3-peat is substantially more challenging. Kobe also won 2 titles with Pau who was a significantly lesser player than shaq. Those things don't really mean all that much because the teams were different and they were playing different competition. A 3-peat is by no means a guarantee. GS showed how difficult it is, despite having a super, duper stacked team. I do think Shaq and Wade would win a title with the lakers, I'm not however convinced they would win 3 together, let alone on consecutive years. What shaq and Kobe did is very rare and has only been done a few times in the history of the league. Shaq couldn't do it with far more talented and loaded laker teams than he had once kobe turned into a star so no, I don't buy that shaq could accomplish the historical feat with a lesser player than kobe.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-05-2019 at 01:24 AM.

  9. #2304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Its an interesting debate, I do think Wade would have won more with Shaq than Kobe but so much of it is about timing. He never came in as a youngster so which year he shows up can be abit unfair. If we say he comes in at the same age and compare the 2 at the same age, I can see them winning more games for sure. Wade was FAR more productive than Kobe when he won with Shaq and far more productive when he was on a single man squad. Peak Wade was a very special player tho
    No, Wade was not more productive with shaq than Kobe was, at least not when any basic reasoning skills are used and the context is examined. It's funny how you account for the role the player is playing on a team for Malone, but completely neglect it here (showing your Kobe bias once again). Wade was the first option with shaq, whereas Kobe was the 2nd option (also you conveniently ignore the differences in their ages when making the comparisons along with the fact that almost 5/8 of the games Wade played were basically against g-league competition. It's doubtful Wade would put up anywhere near the numbers Kobe put up playing alongside shaq as the 2nd option.

    It's also funny that you guys are assuming peak Wade plays with peak Shaq. If we're going to make that assumption, then the same needs to be done for Kobe and we need to put peak Kobe along peak shaq as well (Kobe did not get to his peak until around 06). If we stick Kobe from 06-13 with peak shaq pretty sure the Kobe/Shaq pairing wins substantially more than the Wade/Shaq pairing.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-05-2019 at 01:30 PM.

  10. #2305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No, Wade was not more productive with shaq than Kobe was, at least not when any basic reasoning skills are used and the context is examined. It's funny how you account for the role the player is playing on a team for Malone, but completely neglect it here (showing your Kobe bias once again). Wade was the first option with shaq, whereas Kobe was the 2nd option (also you conveniently ignore the differences in their ages when making the comparisons along with the fact that almost 5/8 of the games Wade played were basically against g-league competition. It's doubtful Wade would put up anywhere near the numbers Kobe put up playing alongside shaq as the 2nd option.

    It's also funny that you guys are assuming peak Wade plays with peak Shaq. If we're going to make that assumption, then the same needs to be done for Kobe and we need to put peak Kobe along peak shaq as well (Kobe did not get to his peak until around 06). If we stick Kobe from 06-13 with peak shaq pretty sure the Kobe/Shaq pairing wins substantially more than the Wade/Shaq pairing.
    I dont think the argument on who was better. We all think Kobe was the better sg. The Idea falls more on Shaq could have won with a prime wade. and yes 3 peat. I do think chemistry would have been better with Shaq wade vs Kobe running off Shaq. From player stand point they won 4 and 5. Shaq 4 Kobe 5. But together i think Shaq/Wade would have won more than 3 rings together.

  11. #2306
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I dont think the argument on who was better. We all think Kobe was the better sg. The Idea falls more on Shaq could have won with a prime wade. and yes 3 peat. I do think chemistry would have been better with Shaq wade vs Kobe running off Shaq. From player stand point they won 4 and 5. Shaq 4 Kobe 5. But together i think Shaq/Wade would have won more than 3 rings together.
    Again, this ignores how unlikely a 3-peat is for any pairing. Shaq could not win a title with a far more talented laker team than the ones he finally won with. Also, if you're going to put wade in his prime with prime shaq, then you have to put prime Kobe with prime shaq. In this latter scenario, the Kobe and shaq would've won far more than prime wade and shaq.

  12. #2307
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    If we are changing roles and Wade is with Shaq in LA then what happens when Kobe joins Lebron in Miami? Heat would of won the championship against Dallas and Kobe gets the finals MVP. Heat win 3+ championship easily.

  13. #2308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Again, this ignores how unlikely a 3-peat is for any pairing. Shaq could not win a title with a far more talented laker team than the ones he finally won with. Also, if you're going to put wade in his prime with prime shaq, then you have to put prime Kobe with prime shaq. In this latter scenario, the Kobe and shaq would've won far more than prime wade and shaq.
    Phil Jackson restructure the roaster to fit his system and figured out a way to win in closing moments. Meaning he was better at playing chess than some of the other coaches. Why would i put Prime Kobe and prime shaq together? They played together so being prime dont mean anything. Kobe wanted to do it on his own. This is what KG meant when he did not want to play with Kobe and mocked him saying he cant do it alone. This is also shaq saying you cant win without me. He did prove Shaq wrong but KG was right he needed Pau. Meaning he had no interest in just winning titles it was bigger than that for him. He had more personal greedy demons to fight. Thats why i think Wade would have stuck with Shaq longer and i think chemistry would have been better. I dont think Wade would have played a game and not shoot to prove why he should shoot more.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-05-2019 at 03:52 PM.

  14. #2309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    If we are changing roles and Wade is with Shaq in LA then what happens when Kobe joins Lebron in Miami? Heat would of won the championship against Dallas and Kobe gets the finals MVP. Heat win 3+ championship easily.
    Kobe wanted to win on his own forget? Oh you really believe he wanted to play with Lebron? Kobe was not going to play with someone who will take the ball out his hands. Now had you said In San Antonio with Duncan then you said something. The personality would have mesh and with pop that would have been a great situation. I could see them winning 6 rings. Parker, Kobe Duncan or Ginoble Kobe Duncan. IMO that would have been a better situation for kobe than with Shaq, Phil
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-05-2019 at 04:25 PM.

  15. #2310
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    I just adore how the discussion of "who is the better player" always gets diverted to "the one who had the better teammates was actually the best since they pretty much had a stronger team than without eachother"... Guys, can you just point out what makes Kobe a better player than Lebron and/or what makes Lebron a better player than Kobe? No Shaq, no Wade, no Smush Parker, no Larry Hughes... Just a straight up comparison.

    Shooting/scoring for example can be broken up into sections of the court, versus being marked by a smaller or bigger player and so on..

    Passing ability is harder to assess usually since assists rely on the effectiveness of the recipient more than the quality of the pass. And recently assists are just handed away like candy since the last pass at almost any moment may count as an assist, despite the receiving player spending more than 5 seconds with the ball or makes more than a couple steps, changes direction and so on...

    There are so many things to talk about when comparing players and for almost 60 pages all I see is whose teammates sucked the more or were the greatest.... It's a team sport, stop evaluating players on the ability of their club to get better talent around them and start focusing on individual quality if you want to do a one on one comparison!

    Why does it have to be so hard to talk about the actual game of basketball? At this rate it's far more likely to have players rated based on their social media followers than their ability to score or defend the basket...

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