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  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Don't dis Ced baby.
    HS players just didn't start back then, rookies often didn't start either if they were on really good teams. I think it would have little to do with ability in terms of whether LBJ would start or not. As it was, the veterans didn't like it when kobe moved into the starting lineup in 1999 and it was because he was still super young. it was more of a cultural reason as to why I don't think LBJ would start right away on that type of team.

  2. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    bad forced shots and not the basketball play
    Yet he was still a pretty efficient scorer (above average for most of his career) in an era where defenses were allowed to play a lot more physical.

  3. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    HS players just didn't start back then, rookies often didn't start either if they were on really good teams. I think it would have little to do with ability in terms of whether LBJ would start or not. As it was, the veterans didn't like it when kobe moved into the starting lineup in 1999 and it was because he was still super young. it was more of a cultural reason as to why I don't think LBJ would start right away on that type of team.
    why is this important? We are talking about a career not rookie years. At least I ainít.

  4. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yet he was still a pretty efficient scorer (above average for most of his career) in an era where defenses were allowed to play a lot more physical.
    higher than Mj or lebron? No right?

  5. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    why is this important? We are talking about a career not rookie years. At least I ainít.
    The question came up as to whether LBJ as a rookie would start right away on the 97 lakers. Obviously prime LBJ would start on any team in any era.

  6. #501
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    If lebron did that you would chime in on he takes low percentage shots.

  7. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    higher than Mj or lebron? No right?
    No, but I've never argued that he was more efficient than either. I didn't say kobe was the perfect player. That was one of his limitations when comparing him to MJ and LBJ. I never said otherwise though.

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    The question came up as to whether LBJ as a rookie would start right away on the 97 lakers. Obviously prime LBJ would start on any team in any era.
    will his body was more nba ready and he played well for his age.

  9. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    If lebron did that you would chime in on he takes low percentage shots.
    That's right, I would...and that is what kept kobe from fully achieving his potential. Kobe could have won more if he took better shots and was more patient and trusted his teammates more. Kobe should have finished with 7 titles if he learned how to use his teammates better, like MJ did. Again, kobe had limitations to his game and shot selection was the primary issue for him.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 10-21-2019 at 01:40 PM.

  10. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    will his body was more nba ready and he played well for his age.
    Yeah, I'm not arguing that LBJ wouldn't be good enough to start, I just don't think he would initially for cultural reasons at the time, which were that young players didn't typically start over veterans on contending teams.

  11. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    should also be at a lower percentage.
    I was wrong, Kobe does indeed have more. Im looking at clogged toilet possessions (As Phil used to call them) and Bron has crushed it in the past with shots late in the clock, Im not really seeing why this guy thinks Kobe is so unique there. Bron made a **** load of them and at rates higher than Kobe. Im still trying to find all their career numbers tho

  12. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, I'm not arguing that LBJ wouldn't be good enough to start, I just don't think he would initially for cultural reasons at the time, which were that young players didn't typically start over veterans on contending teams.
    He would have, he was NBA ready and was the most hyped prospect ever, everyone would have known to start him asap, you cant compare him to twigs like KG and Frobe. The Lakers would have never traded Eddie Jones for the likes of Glen Rice too.

  13. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Well again though, LBJ averages slightly more shots than Kobe. He is more efficient than Kobe but he also scores a lot more at the basket than kobe (bigs are also more efficient than kobe because their points come at the rim). I don't equate efficiency with effectiveness though (although they are certainly correlated). His scoring is actually what I think is probably the most inflated of all of his numbers. I think if he played more team basketball, his averages would be more in the low 20s. So yes, he would still average more rebound and assists and be more efficient (but those would be pretty close and its not as if there is a massive gap there to begin with), the scoring however would not be all that close.

    I am taking context into account with Kobe being the second best player on the team, the thing is though that he was the better than everyone not named shaq at that time so I'm not really sure why that's a knock on kobe. With LBJ's titles, sure it's impressive that he was the #1 guy on both of those, but they came while title hopping and forming a super team. That just carries substantially less weight in my eyes (ignoring kobe altogether, I do not consider those titles on par with titles that are won without doing that). For instance, I consider Dirk's 2011 title to carry substantially more weight than LBJ's 2012 title (not really close if I'm being honest).

    As for the kobe playing the kobe system from 2005-2008, that is debatable, but even if that point is conceded) that's 4 seasons of playing like that vs. 17 (2008 here doesn't fit, because kobe was very much playing within the triangle at that time, so more like 2005-2007).
    Well nobody really agrees with your assessment that Kobe was the 2nd best player during that time as he never finished 2nd in MVP voting those years. Kobe was most definitely not thought of as the 2nd best player during the 3-peat (if anything, that was Duncan). But even if that were true, LeBron was the #1 player in the world, so he was still a higher rank than Kobe. Again, not a great point.

    As for LeBron hopping to a super team, yeah it's not a great look. But I no more punish LeBron for jumping to a stacked team than I fault Kobe for forcing his way onto one in the Lakers at the draft. LeBron had great teams, Kobe had greater ones. I'd take Shaq and those Lakers teams over Wade and those Heat teams.

  14. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    He would have, he was NBA ready and was the most hyped prospect ever, everyone would have known to start him asap, you cant compare him to twigs like KG and Frobe. The Lakers would have never traded Eddie Jones for the likes of Glen Rice too.
    I really don't think they would have started him, at least not right away. As for the Eddie jones trade, I disagree. that trade was about bringing in a pure shooter to pair with shaq. The lakers were going to trade Eddie jones for Mitch Richmond the year before (who was also a sg).

  15. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Micheal Jordan was probably the best player in the league from day one til his first retirement
    Tell that to BigMoves, he's the one claiming MJ wasn't considered or the best player in the league until 91 when he won a title.

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