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  1. #2521
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I can't overstate this enough during Magic's 80's run: the West sucked. Like absolutely sucked. As for the East, Bird had the 76ers to compete with early, and the Pistons late. But there weren't really that many great teams either tbh. The reason is the Lakers and Celtics were far more stacked than any other team. For comparison, both the Lakers and Celtics won Championships with a former MVP (Walton, McAdoo) coming off the bench.
    Yeah, those teams were both incredibly stacked. No argument from me on that, but at least they had each other to go up against. In today's NBA there's usually only one super team, because it's hard to get that much talent on a single team.

  2. #2522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Nah, that was BS at the time and it was mostly propaganda, just like with LBJ right now. He didn't become known as the undisputed GOAT until after the 6th title. I made the same argument back then about why MJ wasn't #1 until he won more. He came back and won more and I gave him his due respect.
    Except it was true at the time. MJ was the best player ever. If anything, you doubting MJ when it was obvious he was the best demonstrates the limitations of your judgement.

  3. #2523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, those teams were both incredibly stacked. No argument from me on that, but at least they had each other to go up against. In today's NBA there's usually only one super team, because it's hard to get that much talent on a single team.
    Yes, and they went up against each other 3 times in the Finals, where the Lakers went 2-1. So if you take out all the Finals Magic and Bird won against easier opponents, Magic has 2 titles and Bird 1. That's pretty much right where LeBron is...

  4. #2524
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Case in point: like how MJ won more than Russell to become the GOAT.
    That's fair, but with that era, there are legitimate issues with it because the Celtics often wouldnt even have to go play in the playoffs and could just skip to the finals. There are still those who have Russell as #1 though. I think the league is different enough now that those concerns are legitimate.

  5. #2525
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Except it was true at the time. MJ was the best player ever. If anything, you doubting MJ when it was obvious he was the best demonstrates the limitations of your judgement.
    No, because you have to prove it. He hadn't done enough to be the best ever. Just like LBJ hasn't done enough to be in that conversation. What you are capable of and what you do are two drastically different things. You can't leapfrog players who did prove it simply because there is support for the idea that you might be able to do better. You actually have to go out and do better.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-09-2019 at 06:12 PM.

  6. #2526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    That's fair, but with that era, there are legitimate issues with it because the Celtics often wouldnt even have to go play in the playoffs and could just skip to the finals. There are still those who have Russell as #1 though. I think the league is different enough now that those concerns are legitimate.
    If you can compare Russell and Jordan's eras you can compare other eras.

  7. #2527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No, because you have to prove it. He hadn't done enough to be the best ever. Just like LBJ hasn't done enough to be in that conversation. What you are capable of and what you do are two drastically different things. You can't leapfrog players who did prove it simply because there is support for the idea that you might be able to do better. You actually have to go out and do better.
    Michael Jordan had already proved he was the best most talented player to ever play the game by his first retirement, if you needed to see more that's on you. Most had already seen all they needed to see and came to the correct conclusion a full 5 years before you came around.

  8. #2528
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    If you can compare Russell and Jordan's eras you can compare other eras.
    The thing is that the league Russell played in was vastly different than the league after Russell's era and so that's an era that isn't directly comparable to other eras that came after. That wasn't the modern NBA, it's similar to comparing the dead ball era in baseball to all of the eras that came after.

  9. #2529
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Michael Jordan had already proved he was the best most talented player to ever play the game by his first retirement, if you needed to see more that's on you. Most had already seen all they needed to see and came to the correct conclusion a full 5 years before you came around.
    Yep, because you have to actually beat out the guys who you are being compared to. The MJ thing was a big propaganda push as well...he just happened to cement it by winning. Guaranteed that if he hadn't won that 6th title, he would not be known as the undisputed GOAT and definitely not if he wouldn't have come back and instead retired with 3 titles.

  10. #2530
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Michael Jordan had already proved he was the best most talented player to ever play the game by his first retirement, if you needed to see more that's on you. Most had already seen all they needed to see and came to the correct conclusion a full 5 years before you came around.
    i think its fun entertaining to say well he got more rings so he must be better. I think that is just fun talk bragging right for players, fans, coaches owners etc but its not that simple. Ones emotions and eyes are playing tricks. With a little help from the league marketing. I think Fans wanted to see more of MJ but he was already the face of the league and the best sg the league have ever seen. He was different.

    I agree with this. This is why sometimes the best players dont always win.


    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-or-statistics

    I think ring counting is what majority will look at because it seem like concrete evidence. After all it have to make sense. We are not into evaluating players or do we know what we are looking for so why not count rings its there its easy. Thing is its nothing close to being that simple.

    This is what i have been trying to get big moves to understand.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-09-2019 at 11:08 PM.

  11. #2531
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    Most people will say well Lebron was on a super team, GSW was a super team but if you look back teams that won were stacked. Thats why i said Lebron would have been stupid to listen to the noise and not leave Cavs. In fact he should have moved sooner. Bosh, Klay was not any better than many of those 3rd options back then. People just hate the players control and they were not use to teams being constructed like that. They wanted to continue the old way.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-09-2019 at 08:57 PM.

  12. #2532
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    Kobe was the first high school guard to ever be drafted. The first ever. Why was he the first? High School guards are barely ready for college let alone the pros. Mcgrady is the only other guard that found success. Every other guard thatís worth mentioning are journey men. So this is another first for Kobe. Kobe success as a teen guard is exclusive to only Kobe. 25 mins a game was enough for the 19 year old to be star in the league. By 20 Kobe was making all NBA teams behind Jordan. Kobe states his GOAT legacy early on.

    The only other guard worth mentioning is Mcgrady. He was drafted out of high school at 9. He received more playing time then Kobeís rookie year and he got 20+ mins a game his second year. No all stars. His 3rd year Mcgrady knew he had to leave Toronto to start getting real playing time. Once Mcgrady got his 35+ mins a game he was a true elite of the game. He became a top 5 SG.

    Mcgrady teen years was amazing but the gap between what Kobe accomplished and Mcgrady is big. Teen Kobe lost 3 all stars and the Lakers got better.

    James lost Irving and Love and no championship. Understandable. Kobe lost Rodman, Jones and Van Exel and went 15-1 in the playoffs.

  13. #2533
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    Wade in 07 had Shaq and Walker. Shaq averaged 18 points and Walker 11 points. They played the Bulls in the playoffs. Bulls had zero all stars. Bulls swept the Heat.

    Kobe in 10 had Gasol and Odom. Gasol averaged 18 points and Odom averaged 7 points. They played the Celtics in the finals. Celtics had 4 all stars. Lakers won the championship.

  14. #2534
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Perhaps you're trolling, but if you genuinely think Kyrie and Love would have been better than McHale or Kareem or Worthy had they simply played with Bird and Magic: feel free to say so now.
    James Worthy would have been Larry Hughes and Kareem would be totally useless standing in the corner


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  15. #2535
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    James Worthy would have been Larry Hughes and Kareem would be totally useless standing in the corner


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    Look at james Worthy efficiency to that of Huges. Injury prone and played 70 games once with caves shooting a whopping 40% wow. You insulted James Worthy.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-10-2019 at 12:18 AM.

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