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  1. #2476
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Why not Mj did. Phil would have took advantage of his skills and modify the triangle. Remember a season phill wanted Kobe distribute that was quickly abandon. For obvious reasons.
    Phil is one of the least flexible coaches in the history of the league. He wasn't going to modify the triangle for LBJ (even once LBJ was a star he probably wouldn't have, but especially for a young LBJ). You seem to think Phil was this coach who adapted to his players and things like that. That's pop in San Antonio. Phil did things his way and if you didn't like it you could sit on the bench or leave.

  2. #2477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Phil is one of the least flexible coaches in the history of the league. He wasn't going to modify the triangle for LBJ (even once LBJ was a star he probably wouldn't have, but especially for a young LBJ). You seem to think Phil was this coach who adapted to his players and things like that. That's pop in San Antonio. Phil did things his way and if you didn't like it you could sit on the bench or leave.
    he did for Payton and Malone.

    But hey check this out https://www.slamonline.com/archives/...-lebron-james/

  3. #2478
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    he did for Payton and Malone.

    But hey check this out https://www.slamonline.com/archives/...-lebron-james/
    BS...payton was incredibly unhappy playing for Phil. Also, maybe you missed the part in the article you posted were Phil says could do both lol

  4. #2479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    BS...payton was incredibly unhappy playing for Phil. Also, maybe you missed the part in the article you posted were Phil says could do both lol
    I did not miss it but I knew that was going to be the thing you take from the article. If he could he would. Kobe did not trust no one else on his team. Phil was being nice 👍

  5. #2480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No KL and Eddie jones were not on the same level, but it was an example of how a player out of hs is never going to replace a starter who is an all-star caliber player. You can keep saying that until you're blue in the face, the fact is that hs players in the 90s (and rookies as well) were not given that much playing time if they ended up on good teams. It was as much a cultural thing as it was an ability thing. It just wasn't done at the time. The NBA has gone away from that, but you still see it in other sports where the young guy (even if he's better than the veteran (who doesn't even have to be an all-star anymore) will play behind the veteran (sometimes for a few years depending on the sport).
    Youre damn right I am, and its what I believe. It was LeBron James... you obviously don't remember the hype he had. He arguably had the most hype, most following, most coverage of any athlete entering a sports draft ever. He was going 1st and if team X was going to trade up to get him, they were going to get him to play him.

    Usually rookies that end up on good teams aren't at the top of their draft class, its how the draft is designed to work. Kobe wasn't at the top of the draft class and with him threatening teams that he would play in Europe if they drafted him, he was able to end up on a contender. Had he been willing to play on the Nets, maybe youre right and he does play out the gate and have a few more points to his name.
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  6. #2481
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    I'm trying to think of NBA rookies that ended up on legit contenders from the 1st pick and the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Magic Johnson which the lakers got that pick via trade from like 3 years prior, who started and played quality minutes, and Duncan which the spurs were only able to have a shot at number 1 overall bc David Robinson got hurt the year prior and he got legit starter minutes. I mean the Spurs had Robinson and drafted Duncan and he got plenty of minutes. If you know a guy can contribute you get him on the floor.
    Last edited by MarkieMark48; 12-09-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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  7. #2482
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    Why did Kobe not win a championship in 2004 when he had a younger Shaq, Karl Malone and Gary Payton?
    D Wade won with Gary Payton and Shaq 2 years later and they were 2 years older
    Wade averaged 38 points per game, what did Kobe average in the 2004 finals?
    What were Kobe's averages in the 2000 finals you ask? 16ppg on 36% shooting.
    Update:
    Keep in mind that Shaq was actually struggling from the year 2003 and on so to win a championship Kobe would have had to step up as the team leader like D Wade did, and for some reason Kobe couldnt do it.

    My reasons would be injury chemistry but Detroit was the right team to pull off the upset. The matchup was perfect and they executed their game plan.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-09-2019 at 02:16 PM.

  8. #2483
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I did not miss it but I knew that was going to be the thing you take from the article. If he could he would. Kobe did not trust no one else on his team. Phil was being nice 👍
    Yeah, because that's what Phil is known for...being nice lol. Phil is one of the biggest jerks in the league, at least in terms of just telling you what he thinks. Kobe did do both, I don't know what Kobe you were watching. You don't average 5 assists per game as a sg who doesn't always have the ball by not being an excellent playmaker and an excellent passer.

  9. #2484
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    I'm trying to think of NBA rookies that ended up on legit contenders from the 1st pick and the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Magic Johnson which the lakers got that pick via trade from like 3 years prior, who started and played quality minutes, and Duncan which the spurs were only able to have a shot at number 1 overall bc David Robinson got hurt the year prior and he got legit starter minutes. I mean the Spurs had Robinson and drafted Duncan and he got plenty of minutes. If you know a guy can contribute you get him on the floor.
    yep, those are good examples. Worthy too, I think, but a key thing here is that those guys weren't out of hs. There was a stigma about drafting guys out of hs and it was almost a thing where coaches wanted to send a message about not playing them. I'm not saying LBJ wouldn't play, I just don't think he would start for a contender (especially one with an all-star at his position) during the mid 90s. This actually has nothing to do with LBJ. This is more of just what the norm was at the time. I'm not saying he wasn't good enough to start or play a big role, I just don't think too many coaches would've allowed it at the time.

  10. #2485
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Why did Kobe not win a championship in 2004 when he had a younger Shaq, Karl Malone and Gary Payton?
    D Wade won with Gary Payton and Shaq 2 years later and they were 2 years older
    Wade averaged 38 points per game, what did Kobe average in the 2004 finals?
    What were Kobe's averages in the 2000 finals you ask? 16ppg on 36% shooting.
    Update:
    Keep in mind that Shaq was actually struggling from the year 2003 and on so to win a championship Kobe would have had to step up as the team leader like D Wade did, and for some reason Kobe couldnt do it.

    My reasons would be injury chemistry but Detroit was the right team to pull off the upset. The matchup was perfect and they executed their game plan.
    Phil was also badly, badly out coached by Larry brown.

  11. #2486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, because that's what Phil is known for...being nice lol. Phil is one of the biggest jerks in the league, at least in terms of just telling you what he thinks. Kobe did do both, I don't know what Kobe you were watching. You don't average 5 assists per game as a sg who doesn't always have the ball by not being an excellent playmaker and an excellent passer.
    they became friends the second go around when Kobe went through some growing pains and had no shaq to share with. Thatís when Bynum said playing with Kobe is tough and can stunt your growth. But at the same time it made it easier for him not having to be double team all the time.

    Hey those 5 assist are inflated since he have the ball all the time.

  12. #2487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Phil was also badly, badly out coached by Larry brown.
    No Malone got injured and Kobe fell into the trap
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-09-2019 at 02:48 PM.

  13. #2488
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    Kobe and shaq I think played 8 seasons together. 6 with both as a starter 5 trips to finals 3 rings.

  14. #2489
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    they became friends the second go around when Kobe went through some growing pains and had no shaq to share with. Thatís when Bynum said playing with Kobe is tough and can stunt your growth. But at the same time it made it easier for him not having to be double team all the time.

    Hey those 5 assist are inflated since he have the ball all the time.
    He didn't have the ball all of the time. He played within the triangle. If he had the ball more, he would probably have average 6-7 assists for his career. The thing I don't think you're getting is that if Kobe didn't play in the triangle, he would've had crazy numbers. He wouldn't have won as much, but his numbers would've been far better. He would've likely had far more scoring titles and MVPs and would probably be the all-time scoring leader, but he would have far fewer championships (although he still likely would've won a few). The numbers we saw from Kobe were the result of him sacrificing those things for titles. He could've easily had inflated numbers and won substantially less.

  15. #2490
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    No Malone got injured and Kobe feel into the trap
    Those things all happened, but Phil got badly out coached. Kobe falling into the trap is as much on Phil and the coaching staff as it is on Kobe.

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