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  1. #2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, the year you are referencing is the year where it was no longer appropriate to say the East sucks. LBJ's Cavs would not have made it out of the east last year either. They only made it out the year before he left because the Celtics were badly injured (and the refs kind of still robbed Boston in that series). The east no longer sucks. Since last year, they've become respectable. It's still not as good as the west, but the east is no longer a laughing stock. The east has been horrible since either 2000 or 2001 up until 2018.
    i donít know. With love still there and if lebron stayed healthy I could see them making a move or two and be back in the finals last season. Lebron was the lone star in La and had that group of guys in 3rd seed beating GSW. Last year lakers was a group of rejects and young inexperienced who would not make the playoffs. The notion that they were better with him off the floor was laughable.
    Last edited by ldawg; 11-29-2019 at 02:22 PM.

  2. #2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I heard they changed a rule after he crossed up Mj and they always called him pound for pound champ. Itís also said Shaq could have won with a number of guards and AI was one of them. That is not a knock on Kobe itís just the way you can build a team with certain players. Kobe and Kg, Dirk, Duncan could of won as well. I donít think him and Kidd would of won a title like he wanted to try
    Yeah, im not denying that Shaq needed Kobe for all 3, as I think he could have won with another elite guard as well. I do think he needed Kobe for the 3-peat though. I think without Kobe we probably only get 2.

  3. #2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Okc was talented, KD was the best single player of the two teams, Westbrook mini mamba willed OKC to the playoffs after Durant left. Was Klay even considered a star? I think iggy won mvp off the bench guy.
    yeah, I'm not saying they weren't talented, I just wouldn't consider them to be super stacked like some of the other teams I was mentioning.

  4. #2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    i donít know. With love still there and if lebron stayed healthy I could see them making a move or two and be back in the finals last season. Lebron was the lone star in La and had that group of guys in 3rd seed beating GSW. Last year lakers was a group of rejects and young inexperienced who would not make the playoffs. The notion that they were better with him off the floor was laughable.
    Yeah, I'm not saying that the Cavs couldn't have added players and still competed, but that team as was constructed probably wouldn't have come out last year.

  5. #2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, im not denying that Shaq needed Kobe for all 3, as I think he could have won with another elite guard as well. I do think he needed Kobe for the 3-peat though. I think without Kobe we probably only get 2.
    yes he needed a guard to help him closed games. His bad free throws. He had success with penny, Kobe and wade.

  6. #2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    They had Westbrook and KD and then they had Adams and Ibaka and a group of solid role players. They basically had 2 superstars (neither of which really knew how to win and a group of good players). The team didn't really execute well though and were mostly a team that played one-on-one in the half court (at least for me, I didn't think very highly of them at any point. I thought they were a good team but not serous contenders). I don't consider that a super stacked team. Compare that to the blazers, who had stoudamire, Steve smith, pippen, Wallace, Sabonis, and a deep, deep bench. The kings were even more stacked. I think the same can be said for most of the spurs teams of that era...I would also pick less stacked teams ahead of that OKC team, such as the 04 wolves, the 09 nuggets.

    It's funny that some of you guys talk about game 6 of the kings series being rigged, but ignore the arguably worst officiated Game 5, which was far more egregious in terms of obvious missed calls and it occurred from start to finish. In the final minute alone of that game, there were like 4 fairly obvious missed calls or call in the wrong direction, and without all of those, the lakers are headed back to LA for game 6 up 3-2. This is the game where shaq shot 0 free throws, was whistled for numerous phantom calls, and ended up fouling out at some point in the 3rd. If any game in that series was rigged, it was Game 5. At most, both games 5 and 6 cancel out and the right team won in the end.
    I don't see youtube videos, articles and a former referee saying anything about G5, but ill take you at your word

    Samaki Walkers shot shouldn't have counted, lakers shoulda lost G4
    Last edited by MarkieMark48; 11-29-2019 at 04:42 PM.
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  7. #2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    I don't see youtube videos, articles and a former referee saying anything about G5, but ill take you at your word

    Samaki Walkers shot shouldn't have counted, lakers shoulda lost G4
    I don't know what shot you're talking about, but missed calls are part of the game. A bunch of missed calls that favor one team systematically is not part of the game. I'm pretty sure there's video out there that have highlighted how bad game 5 was. In the final minute, there was an obvious travel on one of the kings players (which would have given the lakers a key possession), the ball was then knocked out of bounds clearly by the kings, which allowed them to retain possession (this is the possessions on which bibby went on to hit the go-ahead jumper; they should have never had the ball), there was then an illegal screen set by webber, culminating in clear foul on bobby Jackson as Kobe took what would have been the game winning shot. This was all in the final minute. The entire game though was horribly one-sided in the kings favor. Shaq has explicitly called this out on how this was the earliest he had ever fouled out and how this was the only game of his entire career in which he shot 0 frees throws. You might not hear about this very often because the lakers won and the only people really concerned about the officiating are usually going to be those on the losing side. If the series was rigged, it was rigged to extend the series, which they managed to do twice: in game 5 and then in game 6, one for each team so in the end it's a wash.

    There's also the highly debated issue of whether Game 6 (or any other game) was actually rigged, which in all likelihood, it was not. The bad calls in Game 6 were all borderline calls, which happened to break the lakers way. The same as game 5 which broke the kings way. most likely, it was just chance in both cases.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 11-29-2019 at 06:22 PM.

  8. #2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    The Cavs wouldn't be likely to play Toronto in the first round because they would finish with a good record. I have NBA league pass so I watched the Cavs play back then pretty often and the cavs fans do not hate LBJ anymore, just like Miami fans do no hate LBJ. A team with Kyrie and Love (before he was basically neutered by LBJ) would absolutely not lose in the first round in the east. That's absurd. It's possible they lose in the Eastern conference finals, but they'd easily coast in the first round. Outside of the top 3 teams in the east or so, the rest are on par with bottom-feeding lottery teams in the west.
    Find a Cleveland fan that agrees. Iíll wait

  9. #2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No, I mean guys who actually played against both and guys who were teammates with both. You just don't like what they have to say so you dismiss it as idiotic and point out some cases of instances in which what they have said is silly. You can do the same with just about any analysts. As a matter of fact, they're colossally wrong on a daily basis with all the zany predictions they make which turn out to be wrong...by your logic, we should ignore their idiotic opinions as well...and if we do that there goes the case for LBJ being in the top 5.
    Naw we can just look at a the statistical data thatís put a Bron #1...like heís been the youngest person to surpass every scoring benchmark and heís not even a scorer first. If we ignored what every player said all the evidence points to Bron as the GOAT anyway.

  10. #2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Naw we can just look at a the statistical data thatís put a Bron #1...like heís been the youngest person to surpass every scoring benchmark and heís not even a scorer first. If we ignored what every player said all the evidence points to Bron as the GOAT anyway.
    That's because he was the first player to play heavy minutes right out of high school. Ignoring Kobe, LBJ doesn't stack up to MJ (and that's ignoring the adjustment you have to make for differences in era, which will only favor MJ) and he gets blown out of the water by Wilt, where there isn't even data for his blocks or steals, which would put him way out in front of LBJ if those were included, so even ignoring everything else LBJ is frankly not in the conversation of the GOAT. This is only a debate that the media pushes for selling purposes. LBJ is great, but doesn't belong in that conversation.

  11. #2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    That's because he was the first player to play heavy minutes right out of high school. Ignoring Kobe, LBJ doesn't stack up to MJ (and that's ignoring the adjustment you have to make for differences in era, which will only favor MJ) and he gets blown out of the water by Wilt, where there isn't even data for his blocks or steals, which would put him way out in front of LBJ if those were included, so even ignoring everything else LBJ is frankly not in the conversation of the GOAT. This is only a debate that the media pushes for selling purposes. LBJ is great, but doesn't belong in that conversation.
    Nawh Lebron is just better man.

  12. #2022
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Nawh Lebron is just better man.
    Better than who? Certainly not MJ (that's not even close and im far from an MJ fan). If you want to go by stats there are others who blow him out of the water (e.g., Wilt). Winning wise, he doesn't stack up either, despite having better teams and more help than guys like Kobe. If I have one pick to start franchise, there's at least 8 guys I'm picking ahead of him.

  13. #2023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Better than who? Certainly not MJ (that's not even close and im far from an MJ fan). If you want to go by stats there are others who blow him out of the water (e.g., Wilt). Winning wise, he doesn't stack up either, despite having better teams and more help than guys like Kobe. If I have one pick to start franchise, there's at least 8 guys I'm picking ahead of him.
    oh i was just meant Kobe. Nawh MJ is Better.

  14. #2024
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    oh i was just meant Kobe. Nawh MJ is Better.
    I got no problem with those who have Jordan over Bron. They have very similar advanced statistics. Kobe had the exact same style as Jordan and even more help yet his stats don't compare to Mike's. There is an obvious reason for this and even if Big Moves chooses to ignore it, the world will not.
    D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8
    D. Rob gives Alonzo 52/14/7
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NRWNX7Z7Y
    D. Rob gives the Pistons 34/10/10/10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
    D. Rob gives the Clippers 71/14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck4KXAydlkE
    D. Rob gives Shaq 36/13/7/6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XivZd3mRVw
    D. Rob gives Ewing 45/16
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA
    IF YOU DON"T KNOW, NOW YOU KNOW

  15. #2025
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    some of those old players are just ranked out of respect. The games has long advanced past many of those old guys. Those old guys still think an old stock 69 camaro is the best one ever made.

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